Line: [00:00:00] I am very honest and I'm very direct.

I'm very Danish with everything that comes with that,

so I don't really filter things.

I think there's a lot of fake things going on.

First of all people are saying a lot what they think is a popular opinion,

they keep being repetitive,

nothing new or innovative.

A lot of people are afraid of actually saying something that cuts through the noise. 

I was sitting in a panel discussion yesterday and one of girls was saying: you know what, I'm sick and tired of panels where we always just have to sit and push our companies. Can we just do something that is honest? And I was like yes, there's no bullshit 

Line: I realised that one of the things I've not been good enough was being political.

For instance make sure that other leaders, other stakeholders in the company work well with you.

It's not enough that your team like you and you like your team. If nobody else likes you it doesn't matter, cause nobody's going to help your team.

Nobody's going to communicate with your team.

Nobody's going to make it easier. 

Line: I can survive cancer, I can survive anything.

Even when I meet an asshole sitting in front of me, I would just sit and you know, be there physically and just think: you [00:01:00] could just fuck off. 

Line: I feel there's very little thing that can really throw me off my game at this point.

I am very appreciative to be alive and wake up. 

And obviously even if something sucks, you know, this too will pass.

Leo (2): Hey, welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast I'm your host, Leo Judkins, founder of the iGaming Leader Mastermind. And on this show, I sit down with some of the most inspirational and forward thinking leaders in our industry, diving into the real challenges, high stakes decisions and lessons. That shape our 

industry

If you are a VP director or an executive in iGaming, this podcast is built for you.

Before we dive in, a quick thank you to our sponsor Sum Sub, the full cycle verification platform. Trusted by top iGaming operators worldwide, sum sub helps onboard players quickly stay compliant and prevent fraud all without slowing growth.

More information in the description. .​

[00:02:00]

Leo: Hey everybody Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast My guest today has built brands scaled teams made massive decisions across tech fashion iGaming financial trading but she's been reduced to her appearance her relationship her Illness and every single time she has refused to let that be her story She's a cancer survivor competing in hyrox on just 60% lung capacity and one of the most direct no bullshit leaders I've ever met Line welcome to the I Gamer Leader Super excited to talk to you today

Line: Thank you so much and thank you Oh my God you've really been researching me I really appreciate that Like you know most people I have to explain all these things too I feel like now everything has been said very nice to be here

with you 

Leo: Line I uhI really remember the first time we met we'd been talking on LinkedIn for a while before that in the comments and stuff and it was at the boxing session right I was stood there We were we wereYou know like hitting the bags we're all ugly [00:03:00] sweaty working out And I hear you say something about fake bullshit that goes on in the industry on LinkedIn and how you hate it and how it was time for some authenticity so love that And I think That moment for me really describes all of you right like how you approach just being you Can you tell me a little bit more about that I know it's a broad topic but I'd love to kind of hear what you what your thoughts are on that

Line: So I first of all when I I am very honest and I'm very direct like you know I am I'm very Danish with everything that comes with that So I don't really filter things I've been told multiple times By my British peers I live in London so people are not I would say that happy with me being that direct what you're asking about you wanted to know what I why I think it's bullshit 

I 

think there's a lot of fake things going on First of all people are saying a lot what they think is a popular opinion Uh, they keep Basically being repetitive Nothing new or innovative are being shared And I think some people obviously are doing it because they hope they're going to get LinkedIn engagement by basically just [00:04:00] repeating something they think works for somebody else somebody's just saying something to maybe Try to be relevant for me it has exactly the opposite I cannot tell you how many people I've unfollowed because of that So if anybody's watching this and wondering why I'm never liking their post that's probably the reason Sorry guys You feel free to unfollow me as well but I think that's it Like you know a lot of people are afraid of actually saying something that cuts through the noise I I I was I was sitting in a panel discussion yesterday and actually one of the other girls was saying you know what I'm sick and tired of panels where we always just have to sit and push our companies Can we just do something that is honest And I was like yes There's no bullshit So so I think that is the thing like you know I feel that people think that to sell something today you have to be like very. Like, like a like you know but and I for me it's exactly the opposite If somebody like instance you you are smart You don't have to sit and say the brand all the time We go and look at your profile We look at what you're doing You know this if you are every time we saw you you you are having [00:05:00] a sign in your forehead saying the brand We were like that's just so okay

You can You can yeah

Leo: Line I loved it because that's that's everything you stand for I actually I saw you some post I sawsome guy posting something I think last week or something about how women all dress up to get attention I saw your comment on it and I love was so good where you just went look I dunno what you're on about but it's you I think you just have such a good way of Like not I dunno how to describe it Just not not playing the the PR game you know and and just being like this is what you this is what you get and this is what you see And like one of the big things that I I often think about with you is that like you've been reduced to the things over over years right Like I said in the intro things that you've associated with your appearance Illness which you'll talk about a little bit more but but tell me a little bit more about those assumptions Line like which ones were for you maybe the hardest to shake and Yeah How has that affected you 

Line: I think the first one where I really realised that people had opinion was [00:06:00] me share that story not long time ago So when I was younger I started one of the first GATT magazine in Denmark which I think was kind of accomplishment I to because I had absolutely no money I also host on a GATT show in Denmark to advertise for the magazine This is why mid twenties But then I start dating a guy who was became famous really really quickly for some reason everybody just identified me with him got hacked I got harassed people were saying the only reason I was successful was cause I was with him Although I have had a career since I was what 17 years old everybody who knows me know I've always had at least two jobs the fact that I suddenly got diminished Because I was with him was such a big shock I didn't even consider like you know I I've never been one of those pretty girls who you know which I thought was just good And again there's nothing wrong with that Like you know this is just but I've always been a nerd I've been like one of those who opens a computer and look inside and look at the motherboard look at everything Look at fried one Also cause I tried a bit too much but because I'm such a nerd I never [00:07:00] even considered that people would be be be put me in a in in a box and say oh she's only successful because she's dating this guy was such a big shock for me for it And I I remember I was actually didn't break up because of that but ultimately it did have a big strain on the relationship I didn't wanna be known as his girlfriend If anything he should be known as Michael my boyfriend Like you know I was did the first GAT magazine like you know but yeah that's but unfortunately that's not how the world is since then I've been super mindful about how people are seeing me know that some people will say because again I also I dress exactly

Leo: Yeah

Line: And I know there are some people who think that can be too much or too little back to the comment that you mentioned that you saw I did last week that guy I think removed me

Leo: no way

Line: because of it. He didn't reply, is the thing like you know I am sick and tired being told you know a woman who can do this have to look in a certain way You know what if I wanna run around in a orange dress and being a big colorful You know that that is my provocative and I [00:08:00] feel it's such a weird thing that we keep telling not just women but everybody to be this person You know this career you need to fit into this box have to make yourself to this type of person you know and and I feel it's That for me that is actually bullshit We we are talking about mental health and in the same time we try to limit people to become something they're not even

Leo: it actually goes to that whole PR perception thing as well right the thing you were talking about when you were on stage yesterday with that panel where you're saying oh we've gotta promote our business that we like You gotta people feel that they always have to show themselves from a Specific side like the best side or they always feel that they have to fit in this specific box or and all of that is nonsense Right You just do you so tell me a little bit more about what you said there earlier where you said I'm actually really mindful about what I look like or

Line: but I know people have a like

a perception

of me when they meet me Like you know because particularly if I come in like you know in an old In a dress where maybe they may feel like showing a

Yeah

skin.And instantly I'm,put into a box that I'm maybe not [00:09:00] smart enough or maybe not that And the thing is I consider myself to be a hard conduit Like you know I'm an Old East by they play Counterstrike for many years I'm one of those people who got an MP five just because it was my favorite weapon in in car strike So I consider myself to be one of those people you know who if I need a skill like if I want to do need to do development like you know Code A-S-P-J-S-P back

it

the days.but of, of course when you then come all dressed up like for instance I did my MBA for some years back this was during lockdown I always had this thing since I was sick that I never wanna look at a tired or sick person in the mirror So doing all these sessions I came with like a bright lipstick and I even had a wardrobe I called my lockdown wardrobe with basically a running short but a really cute top So in the ME meetings I look glamorous

And considering that I always had my foot into fashion I felt that I had to be the representative to that as well And I'll be honest when I joined this is one of the best business schools in the uk With my broken Danish accent And I'm [00:10:00] sitting there and you can see this is a lot of academic people and they think I'm stupid as fuck they Don't even hide the fact they thought I was stupid I could come into one of the meetings and I would say something and everybody would just be quiet And then in like 30 seconds they would just continue Like they didn't hear me like I was just invisible actually started to Hashtag Invisible woman

after that

cause I realised there is something and then I remember I was like should I try to make myself fit into this Should I try to change myself I, you know what, I just got more bright lipstick I

Leo: Love it

Line: more ruffles. So I always wish when I came into a room that I could come in and being all dark and mysterial and you know almost restrain myself a little bit and I tried it's so funny I actually just wrote a post that said that I'm publishing tomorrow and I always thought like you know what if I cut this you know of myself and this of myself then ultimately I'm going to be what people expect me to be and it will fit in But I also realised that I will be so grossly unhappy know because I am just not that [00:11:00] Cute little things sitting on the shelf and looking in a certain way I need to be loud I need to form a passion And yes when I was younger I was not confident as I'm now like you know when I was younger I, I really, I, I would lie in my bed in the evening I just hate the fact that I was that weirdo that couldn't fit in And there was moments where I was like Yeah well I really thought like there's not room for for people like me

in the world

but then with age and maybe even with illness you I I learned you know what there's always somebody maybe there's not as a parent maybe take a little bit more time there And the rest if they're judging you for the way it's not really my problem

Leo: Yeah Let's talk a little bit about illness and how that's affected you So in for people that don't know you were diagnosed with incurable cancer in 2013 while building your career and raising a family So Tell us a little bit more about that Line what did that do to you how did it change your perception 

Line: I got diagnosed just after my second child was born and in the Beginning I was actually not too worried [00:12:00] because it's thyroid cancer and everybody say thyroid cancer is the good cancer That's bullshit Do never ever say to anybody that any kind of

is a good cancer But that meant that I didn't think oh I'm going to have a surgery and that that's it Um, then after uh,almost a year the realised is incurable because I become immune to the only no treatment At this point I already had one surgery and one with active iodine treatment For people who don't know iodine is basically radiation that means that you cannot be around any vulnerable people for a given period of time which meant I had to be away from my children for four and six weeks I think most parents know how terrible it is to leave your, that point Two and a half

oh

and six six month old baby and not knowing going to happen So I wish I would say I was like super dignified when this happened I was not I was very self-pity I have absolutely no doubt like no understanding of why my husband is still with me I was like yelling and screaming Then I went into depression was lying in my bed just feeling really really [00:13:00] sorry for myself because when you hear something like incurable It stops your world There's no way you can mentally prepare for something like that but but the thing is my kids is very good Like they realised something was going on they ended up lying with me and bed and they didn't ask me for anything They didn't they just lying there And I I don't even I think I was in bed for two or three weeks but time is very blurry Like maybe it was more maybe it was less And but I also remember I was thinking if I'm going to go out It's not like lying in the bed and you you almost having you know you know cramped because you've been lying in bed for such a long time And I realised I'm going to try to take some control back And I start I decided I'm going to start exercising it didn't it's not like I start doing long first my first run was like seven minutes Even to buy buy the right equipment like buy the right shoes Like I had no idea Like I went into like one of those supermarkets to also

Yeah

So I didn't even want sort like a cause I had no idea where to start and yeah I started running I very slow [00:14:00] I nothing amazing And then it slowly became longer and longer until I did my first half marathon And then because I'm an idiot and overdo things I lost the ligament in my angles I need a double

angle

ankle surgery

for that. Oh my This is really just showing that sometimes I really need to step up and and think a little bit I'm doing but yeah But the good thing about that was that was exactly what

inspired me

to become a shareholder and start a shoe company with comfortable high heel

Leo: Yeah so let's talk about that Line because I truly believe that our mess becomes our message I think sometimes the hardship that we have to go through that we fight through they make us so much stronger they become our teachers right And they also create the fuel that we need to create the behavior change that we want in our lives to become a different person So Yeah that's where I wanted to go with you next Like what is it I mean you already said when you are somewhere and you go on camera you don't wanna look tired or sick That's one of the things you said right I'm assuming that's coming direct from that 

Line: Yeah 

Leo: so [00:15:00] I'd love to hear how has it changed you How has it been a teacher for you going through incurable cancer

Line: I'm really mindful that not everybody has a journey like me So I don't wanna say that cancer was is a good thing in any way because it was not I think for me exactly as you said it did become you know where you have to make a really strong decision in what what do you what kind of control do you want in your

lifeIt had been eye-opening not just to my body and what I can do like you know what kind of life I want but also my mental health Like you know I was struggling a lot before I got diagnosed for all kind of reasons like you know I'd never been one of those people who were very much in contact with myself I, I had very big chips on my shoulder like maybe because of some of the things about fitting in since then I begin to realise I can survive cancer I can survive anything Even when I meet an asshole sitting in front of me I would just sit and you know be there Physically and Just think you know what that's about Cancer you could just fuck off Like obviously I'm not

Leo: Yeah

Line: won.Now everybody afterwards will think Hey did she do that to me But so I think [00:16:00] I feel there's very little thing that can really throw me off my game at this point Of course I

Leo: Yeah

Line: day,but ultimately like you know I was talking with a friend the other day who was going through a rough time was like a really good mood And I said to him I'm so sorry but it's one of the side effects of surviv cancer is that I am very appreciative to be alive and and wake up and obviously even if something sucks you know doesn't mean that it you know this too will pass which I really

Leo: Yeah

Line: is is something my husband always say I really believe that anything will also pass and I think that is the the thing it

really taught me

I

Leo: bet gives you such a different outlook on the challenges that you go through because they're all insignificant in comparison to what you've already faced right so so looking at your career then Line you've moved a lots right Different companies different industries different continents We've talked about it beforehand You're going from Rio to the other side of the world back to Rio what is that for you Is that ambition restlessness or something else And [00:17:00] what have you learned about yourself from from each of those 

moves

Line: So I am a 

very passion

driven

person, I was actually thinking about it because I left such an amazing job an amazing salary at that point my boss even said to me can you just work a bit slower because you make everybody feel really bad about themself And I would've stayed in that role and had an amazing salary was a hundred percent remote But that's the thing like you know I am extremely passion driven as a person if you look at my career days You can see what kind of interest have been following me through my life So backpack in the days I'm I'm a tech person I absolutely love tech so although I'm educated fashion designer so there you can see the fashion came in really quickly that that is this is not an industry I wanna work directly in but maybe invest in and that's why we the shoe company But tech has always been this strong like connecting

Leo: Mm

Line: everything I've done.I began to play poker after some time I realised okay poker is amazing and I got an opportunity to work with poker And then while I was working with poker I realised and I got the [00:18:00] opportunity to do my MBA and in my one of my projects I decided to do a blockchain sustainable blockchain which we incorporate into the shoe company also I realised I wanna know much more about this I wanna do a doctorate And you know one day you know that that's the only binary title I I think suits me would be doctor All the other things I don't understand I accept it but I'm too old too for that But for me to understand proper I need to not just know it from a theoretically point of view I

Leo: Yep

Line: with it.So I wanted to work in FinTech so that's why I'm working in FinTech now all fairness I wouldn't be surprised in five 10 years I work in life tech the life tech on blockchain which is ultimately where I wanna go Even if it looks like I'm just like you know it is very much what my passion and where I feel that I can put most into a given time

Leo: it's like Steve Jobs said right you connect the dots looking backwards And I think that's often true when you follow your passion so when you I mean through through all those transitions in those different places different industries different companies different jobs what's maybe the hardest [00:19:00] decision that you had to make as a leader and looking back do you think you got it right

Line: No I don't think I'm ever but this, this is the thing like I always joke about I hope that when I grow up I would get it right considering I'm almost 50 like you know I getting to believe it's not going to happen But no I don't think by all means that I've done this perfect I am super flawed human for it one of the things that is very important for me is to be able to protect my team I know a lot of people a lot of leaders is very driven by ambitions

for the companny

But for me it's really about growing the people that I'm working with I when I hire people I always say like one day you will be able to you know replace me really truly believe that And I'm really happy that if you actually if you go back now and see what companies have been in you would actually see that have happened and that for me I feel is one of my strongest assets as a leader and as a human That I give people that ambition but also confidence to believe in their own growth And let's be honest people who believe in themselves they can Rock the you know you

Leo: Yeah

Line: I [00:20:00] think when I've been in situations where I could not protect my team uh, there wasn't a situation where I had one team I took over another department and two people left But I I was not allowed to hire two new people So my existing team had to take that extra job And they're already you know in my opinion Grossly underpaid I and I couldn't because in the end I knew like I I would never have to ask them to work late cause if they saw saw I was online they

Leo: Yeah

Line: But I felt so guilty that they did that then ultimately I had to leave that company and I told the new guy There are particular two people because one of them should have actually taken that job if you don't promote them I'm going to take them with me I'll give you three months And he didn't promote them So I took them with me to the new company when I could

And

Leo: and did you leave that company on principle questions like the things that were against your value Was that it because of the team or 

Line: A hundred percent And I had a very good talk with hr and funny enough I was the only one HR ever took out for a goodbye goodbye

I

as well I think she respected that a lot Like you know it's a very big [00:21:00]company and, and of course it's easy to thing about yourself and I think A lot of people does that and I I'm not blaming people for doing that because have been situations where I've left companies and would have no plans my husband will look at me and like again why did you do this to yourself But the thing is I believe that if the more you you begin to compromise your values the less they become ultimately values have become so small that you don't even recognise them anymore just decided in my life that's not how I

Leo: Yeah

Line: I'm I'm very scrappy Worst case I

Leo: Yep

Line: in my holiday home I have like a static caravan and then I rent out my house I will always find a way

Leo: I love that well there's two things to that Line though like one is a lot of people are not really clear on what their values actually are they kind of know it uhthat they couldn't articulate it And I think the second thing why you're also right is that they they make them smaller right Because they're maybe not clear on them or they compromise on it Because they feel they have to maybe because of golden handcuffs or whatever it is so let's uh let'sturn that into a lesson For anybody that's maybe not clear on their values or [00:22:00] feels that they're diminishing or somebody that feels that they have to go to compromise on their values what would your advice be to them

Line: I think the whole question is why do you do things understand that you have responsibility I, you know, you know everything is about what kind of life you want as you know I exercise a lot and exercise for me investment into my health Is investment to be a better person and hopefully stay around for my children everything I do is for my children What kind of role model do I wanna be Like do I wanna be somebody where I can go back to my children and say you know what I did everything in my power It didn't work out but I did everything to do right So I speak a lot with them about this as well So I think you know I don't think my way is the only way Of course we're all different you know everybody have to decipher themself and I would never ever judge anybody for taking all the decisions ultimately if you lie in the bed in the night and you think you know what I hate my job or I hate my life you need to ask yourself You know is it worth it Is it worth for you to cut away part of yourself [00:23:00] to stay in that role Or is it okay to have six 12 months where you really just have to be scrappy and do whatever to take all kind of weird roles that you never ever thought that you were going to take in my opinion no job is a bad believe me I've done a lot of weird jobs and I'm proud of myself that I've always been able to take care of myself And I think that is the thing Like you know I don't care about titles You know what I have been cleaning when I was younger You know what that's absolutely fine So I think that's the thing can you live with it yourself if that's how you see it keep going But if you don't ask yourself why begin to write it down

Leo: YesGreat advice Okay so let's talk a little bit about team you've mentioned just now that team is is uh Are far more important to you than like the the business itself And I mean you've operated in many different industries where rules constantly change right Regulation licensing market access very similar to how how iGaming operates as a whole but how do you like what is your approach How do you lead a team when you genuinely don't know what's coming next and what do you do when you get it wrong

Line: We have a [00:24:00] situation right now in Brazil exactly where when we were there and I think the uncertainty obviously everybody's worried like would this impact the job Would they impact anything And I get that I feel clear communication is one of the most important thing Like you know at least don't ignore or diminish people's feelings about this Make sure that they know they can always come to you and talk and as soon as you know something you communicated I think the problem is if you feel like you know that your leadership is not taking care of you but if you feel that they're protecting you you would be much more calm So for me communication very importantly no no over-communication this case although I do like to communicate a lot but to make sure that there least

know 

that as soon as something is changing they will be the first to know

Leo: Clear communication Don't over communicate Make sure you communicate quickly and concise Be concise and clear about it Love it Great advice you've worked in a lot of different umwith a lot of different leaders and so I wanna talk a little bit about the gaps that you perhaps noticed There's different leaders in different companies of [00:25:00] course but what's the biggest gap that you see between like what leaders say about how they lead and what they actually do

Line: Oh this is the interesting one So I think with in our industry one of the strongest things about game gaming is that we have no. Like everybody you don't people don't need to come in with a degree If you are shown that you are hardworking and a grinder you come in which is a really good thing It means it's accessible and very inclusive for everybody problem is although a lot of people think that studying is just about bullshit you actually do you know learn tools cause I always thought before I I studied that I was a great leader because I am always somebody who's very empathic I realised that one of the things I've not been good enough enough two things that not been good enough was one being political And as soon as people say political I mean like for instance make sure that other leaders other stakeholders in the company work well with you It's not enough that you your team like you and you like your team but if nobody else likes you it doesn't matter cause nobody's going to help your team Nobody's going to communicate with your team Nobody's going to make it easier [00:26:00] And the other thing Protect your team fiercely You are not there to be the best friend of your team which I thought was actually the thing in the beginning you need to take the fight with HR when there is a salary block and your team have not gotten anything for a year or deadlines are absolutely unreasonable you are the one who have to have the gut to go up to maybe the management and say Hey guys this is not okay This is not fair And I feel a lot of people don't have that because they're so they think about their own position so they don't take that fight for the team So I, I either see these very friendly leaders who are very you know friendly with the team but don't take that fight or are not really understanding how to work with other stakeholders I think that is some of the tools that you can learn that I feel people are missing right now 

Leo: Then when we get to senior leadershipI see some other things that then start cropping up You know people that have been in the industry for 10 15 20 years quickly grown throughout their careers because it's super accessible like you said right They maybe started there at whatever [00:27:00] 23 just like you and me andthey grow through and they come up to C level Suddenly other problems start happening So you kind of figure maybe you figured out it's not you shouldn't just be a nice guy because everybody's your mates are now your team and What are the gaps that you see there Is there anything that you notice there kind of at sea level where there's a gap between what people say and what they do as leaders

Line: But this is a little bit maybe what the bullshit I mentioned in LinkedIn the beginning isn't it Like you know and I think a lot of people is this let's just talk about you know about being of type Everybody's saying they wanna do it but really nobody's you Doing they're doing like the bare minimum

Leo: I

Line: I feel a lot of people are thinking more about how they're looking but actually putting actions into the words I remember I was in a big company where we at one point and we've been talking about oh my God we've been hammering with D and being inclusive for years Then they present this whole new senior leadership and there was four guys and a woman and they all made this presentation of themselves all four guys Like yeah I have this amazing wife you're taking care of the kids blah blah blah And [00:28:00] then the one woman yeah I have no kids blah blah And after we were like okay so you literally just told us like the only way that you can be you know a senior woman in this company is if you didn't have any you know, or.

You should have found yourself, you know, a wife who

Leo: Yes

Line: of the kids one of those two And I feel there's so much of this where people are saying they wanna do it I feel that maybe lost a little bit touch with what's going on And I think that's what maybe what you mentioned as well so instead of actually like the same thing all these satisfaction surveys that comes out I'm sorry but this is for me don't like to put something but this is the most American like stupid thing but all these surveys and you're really gonna and we promise we are going to do something and like I have filled in so many of these surveys in my life and I am extremely comprehensive in my feedback I never just say give the five points or three points or one points I always really really I cannot remember any time in my life and I'm almost 50 where I felt that anybody have given a [00:29:00] shit about what I have given a feedback or where I have seen this being implemented in any way it's like okay we want.teams to be saying that we we care about what you the feedback but it's just a way to make us think that we we have a voice so I feel like out of touch with the, with the personneltoo little action and too much fluff And BS 

Leo: love thefact that you're calling out umdiversity you know inclusion I think it's such a I think it's such a good point because in many areas that are Kind of popular from a PR perspective right They're like the current trend to talk about it gets talked about a lot and then there's very little action Or the action that's taken is like you said is the opposite of what should be done or actuallyconfirms the bias from before So how do you feel people could 

Line: no but Ice Vincent who, who, who made this whole 

Leo: Yeah

Line: which I think is a really good idea.the only people who participate in the panels and the only one who listened to it [00:30:00] is people who's already agreeing already people who think yes we should dive the ones who actually should And the last time at AT ICE actually called it out and I was like yelling because the problem was they gave people headsets shouldn't people who just passed by would not have any idea what we were talking about on it So we didn't get any like just and I was like trying to yell yell them up and say guys like this This is the one We want more guys to actually come and join us We want senior leaders to come and sit here I dunno if I scared them away Some people stayed for like two minutes and then they were got off again You know maybe to just take a photo Hey I I I sat in on

Leo: Yeah

Line: panel and then I left but this is the thing like we keep saying it and I am one of those people when I see and as and I scroll down and it's just white men and I have nothing against white men My husband is a white man My son is a half white man Like you know I and I think they're great but the thing is when you see Like you know 10 panels in a row and it's all white men and I, and I'd address it then a guy would say oh but why You know you should be about you know the skills and not the not the the gender And I agree on that but did you invite [00:31:00] just one woman to the table to discuss it with her before you dismissed her This is not a question about me not liking white men This is a question about did you Give the other person a chance to actually say something before you said oh there's no woman who's competent enough to be here You know or any of color This is why I always say they invite me because I'm getting three of the D boxes I get like color uh little okay little person I I don't not allowed to say that Mom And and uh uh, and a woman as well Oh my I must forgot I'm a woman Sorry

Leo: yeah I think it's such a good point we see it everywhere right how do we close that Gap you think Line I mean the obvious answer is and I don't want you to give the obvious answer because we were talking about what people say they do and what they do The closing the gap is actually just doing what you say obviously but how like how can we you know for somebody maybe listening to that thing so like yeah it should just be about skills and whatever I don't care what she says how do we close that gap?

Line: But first of all it has to be a podcast like yours because if I was sitting in a DI podcast we both know that it's the [00:32:00] only people who are going to listen So this will be people who are

Yeah

agreeing that so so this is already a good first step but but this is the thing I think people have to understand It's not a walkins it's basically just an opportunity to because I I had a guy coming to me the other time and he said to me yeah uh, and he want to sell me some media buying and influencer And then he says to me yeah because young people they know these things much better I had to stop him and say honestly did you just did you just you know use age against me Yeah But then not really like think I, and I said to him, okay, I always feel sorry for you that you will say this to me. Like I probably been first of all I've been online obviously since you know web one

Leo: Born a nerd Yeah

Line: And on top of that super nerd and you're telling me that you're going to teach me how to and then he didn't even know how to get it QR code on Telegram And I was like I felt so and he got really nervous I rattled

Leo: Yeah

Line: lot.But but this the thing these these um,presumption that we have As soon as we said dive we instance think okay now it's it Like it's a woman who hate men who don't wanna burn her [00:33:00] bra and wanna yell you know and at them So all these presumptions

Leo: Yeah

Line: is around, around gender and rounding that has to be I think first of all this is really important So I thinks never want to win a female award I've asked

Leo: Yeah Great

Line: I wanna participate in female, um,I have said no I if you if you nominate me for a Leaders award that's great but I don't I don't wanna be nominated for a Female Leaders award simply for the fact that I think that segregation Makes it harder doesn't mean that I don't believe we should support women and support people of color but I think when we have desegregation we actually polarise and make it even hard harder to be heard And let's be honest if I were going for one of those four I wouldn't I wouldn't like to you know just be with with one gender would want race.I think that is a start to do it Every time I see these things I get a little bit I know why they're doing it But I think it's a huge disfavor the conversation because guys will sit there even if they say they like it on LinkedIn they'll think why Why Why [00:34:00] do we need like either for best leader best entrepreneur best whatever It shouldn't be gender specific

in my opinion 

Leo: that makes a lot of sense I wanna ask you umone last question You know I I love I love what we talked about uh so far right now I wanna go back to what you were saying halfway through about you sitting there people going quiet after you've said something You having doubted yourself for a long time in the beginning of your career on whether or not you should have changed that and realising that you would've been really unhappy if you would've done that I want you to take Be back to that period in your life if you would go back there to that time when you were perhaps just starting out and you were having those doubts in your mind about if you should be compromising on your behavior being leaner the outspoken fighter that's turned up here today what will you tell her in that moment of doubt I

okay. That 

Line: that's actually a really heavy one Like you know because as I said it was even if I'm very confident today I was very very good at my career at that time but I was so lonely in my twenties that you cannot even [00:35:00] imagine I remember one guy actually said to me at one point but nobody want career women this age maybe in your thirties And I was like oh okay I would just sit here and drop myself down over in the corner Then I, I, I would never give such a nasty comeback by the way I would just been like okay So I if I met and actually when I meet women like my

Yep

I'veI've been mentoring at whole business school So I meet young women in the in the in the beginning of the twenties now And I would tell them to not give a fuck I would say, you know what yes maybe there will be people to tell you that Things that have to be in a certain way now and you know what for what is worth worth this is why we have social media Then we can see that all of these guys are still stuck Whether because they have been spending all the energy to conforming and look at us now we can be divas and queens later And that's what I was showing and that's actually what I'm trying to also come across

in Linkedin on what I'm trying to tell you know I had some women who was like very about if you do business you have to wear a suit You always have to wear a suit You have to have to look a certain way You have to become a little bit more grayish You have to be a little bit more this and that And I said [00:36:00] no no no no That's absolutely wrong Like if you wanna blend in with the furniture yes that's what you can do But you know what Show, show yourself So I would just be that loud person coming back to myself and saying you know what honestly And also when you get older I get more money You can just do it You get the freedom that you want You know I'm not saying money give you happiness It does give a

Yes

later on Uh, fun I dunno if it would be a good advice though Maybe I just made myself more confused I'm not sure

Leo: I think it's great advice because That is the thing isn't it You know if you are just in the middle and you're just you're just compromising and you are trying to satisfy everybody The only person that you're not satisfying is yourself and I think It's better to be polarising People will hate you And people will love you And that's that's fine That's that's the way it should be So uhLine it's been great having you on the podcast Thank you so much for sharing your story 

Line: you so much. As I say, I actually tapped into a couple, I almost feel a little bit sweaty now, like, you know, so I feel like this. Been a very heated and [00:37:00] passionate conversation so thank you so much Leo Thank you

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