Max Meltzer: [00:00:00] I had an entrepreneurial background. I failed or not achieved what I wanted to do or felt that the industry wasn't right. Pivoted back into employment, and then I've pivoted back out again. And what I've realised is to be a success as a founder, you have to have the guts to fail. If you don't have the guts to fail, really you shouldn't do it.

​No one actually cares enough about you personally. Only you care about you to that extent. Do feel like, oh, what's everyone going to think? No one's actually thinking anything.

​What I've personally learnt over the last couple of years is not to prioritise financial milestones ahead of anything else. You are a better business person if you do put more priority and focus on your health and on your personal wellbeing,

​Whatever happens, prioritise family. Put all of your values first. You know, set your most important boundaries, because they're your foundation and, and support.

​There is a quote that I love from, Nelson Mandela, where he says there's no passion to be found, by, living a small life. And that really you should, pursue having a [00:01:00] great life maximising everything that's available to you.

Leo Judkins: Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast, where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and as an ex iGaming director term performance coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Entain 3, 6, 5, flutter, and many more to help them build the habits. To achieve sustainable high performance.

In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same. So with that being said, let's dive in.

​

Leo Judkins: Hey everybody. Welcome to the iGaming Leader podcast. Today I'm joined by Max Meltzer, founder, CEO and investor, and someone who's raised millions to launch strive, a gaming business, serving some of the biggest brands in North America, but behind the boardrooms and big deals.

Max is, is a dad whose favourite part of the day is [00:02:00] dropping his daughter off at school. He's a gardener, and he finds meaning in, in nurturing life, a really empathetic leader who's, who's learned the hard way that health and relationships can't wait for success.

So, super excited to talk to you, max, because this is the stuff that most people don't see, right? They think that it's all glory and success, and, I know you, your story is, is, you know, full of challenges and, and overcoming those. So, yeah, really excited to talk to you. Welcome to the podcast.

Max Meltzer: Thank you, Leo, and wow, what an intro. I mean, I'm not going to get a better intro than that, so thank you, Leo. And, it's strange also to hear an introduction that chucks in some of those personal attributes into it. I think people are probably going to be very immediately wanting to know how, or to find out that I'm into gardening so much.

In such an opening, the intro is quite, a stunning one. But yeah, it's, to your point, yes, it, like we were just talking. The founder life setting up businesses like yourself, like [00:03:00] what I have done and other founders you meet, it's incredibly difficult. But it is a great community of when you get to know the founders who are behind businesses of all sizes the difficulties they go through, the grinds, the failures that they have, and then the, the new births of other opportunities that come from it.

And, I love it. And the more I, the longer it goes on the, the, know, the more I understand about the, the strains of, of, of founder life, but also the gains, which are not just financial. It's being part of something exceptional where you can grow and hire talent to build, and it's super exciting. So, yeah. Anyway, in any case, thank you for having me on the, on the show.

Leo Judkins: It's the stuff that you can't learn in school, and it's the challenges that really shape you and, and where you, I think, I mean, over time, your identity massively changes. You've obviously gone from, you know, a really good career. It can be to founding your own business, and we'll, we'll dive into that in, into that massive switch.

That [00:04:00] must have been quite, confronting as you, as you first, identified some of the challenges that you were going through, but to start with this, max. When you look at your life and career right now, what's the feeling that comes up for you most often when you, when you reflect on, kind of your journey so far?

Max Meltzer: It's, interesting actually, because I was an entrepreneur ever since I was. Fairly young, I suppose. I ran a music agency when I was doing my A Levels, trying to contact, it was like music, film, composers and stuff like that actually at that time. And then I went into, worked for free originally for a sports agency.

Eventually got a very small sort of part-time job, because I was willing to work for free. But also I was, I actually utilised Facebook at a time when lots of people weren't using Facebook to contact footballers. And, and I was part of a cricket agency, and a golf agency called ISM Run by Chubby Chandler, who had Roy McElroy at the time and, and others.

And then I set up my own agency called Simply Sport [00:05:00] Management. And I did that for a, a good few years. I raised a little bit of money then, and from a well-known, Nottingham based, Manufacturing owner who was getting into sports, who actually became the CEO of Glasgow Rangers a few years afterwards.

That was a moderate success personally, and that I did, I was able to sell shares to exit that business, but it perhaps wasn't as wildly successful, nor was it necessarily the industry that I actually felt that I wanted to be in. So I think I, I loved the football agency world, but it ended up in quite a, a, a very strange world, and it wasn't really for me.

So, but at that point, you know, I actually then left that and went into employment and that's the sort of angle where at that point in time you might have considered yourself to have failed your entrepreneurial journey or, let yourself down in some particular [00:06:00] way. But I, I felt I needed the chance to reset.

So went back into employment. Started to learn really, I was given a great opportunity by someone called Andrea s at, the Press Association, who then, is now at Sports Radar. And there's some great people like Tim Reer who was at, he's at XB net now and through Press Association, went on to, get an offer from Eric Berg at Kambi and so on.

And that's where my of journey back to sports. And then it went back to the progressing as a and setting up something as a founder, which I'm sure we get to talk about.

But what I emphasising through that is I had an entrepreneurial background, felt like for whatever reason, I potentially may have found that, that I failed or not achieved what I wanted to do or felt that the industry wasn't right. Pivoted back into employment, and then I've pivoted back out again. And it's been a success since.

But to have that taken those risks, I think has been very. Has actually set the foundations for a successful founder life [00:07:00]later. And actually perhaps, I think you have, like for me personally, what I've realised is to be a success as a founder, you have to have the guts to fail. If you don't have the guts to fail, really you, you shouldn't do it.

Nor if, and if you haven't failed, then you probably haven't tried hard enough somewhere, So, yeah, that, that's kind of where it's led to today. So these are founder story back into those hiccups and, and back into the success and enjoyment that we have today, or I have today.

Leo Judkins: really amazing story. Max. one of the things that's really stood out for me from, from what, from your story is that you said something like, some people would deem that failure going back into employment, and I can feel it now as well.

I've kind of done the opposite. I've always been in employment, started my own business, and I've, I've, I can so imagine how hard that decision must have been going back into employment. So can you tell me a little bit more about that, like, that transition and maybe some of the decision-making and the emotions leading up to that decision and how that felt, [00:08:00] and why you feel that others might see that as a, as a failure.

Max Meltzer: Well, I think, you know, if you ever set any business, unless you're having a major exit or, some spectacular moment, it could seem like it's, it's a, a failure. And even if you do get a little exit like I did of my shares, it's not a way't enough to sort of, um, sustain a, a new way of living.

So, going into employment. Could be seen. But then actually what I've realised over time is no one actually cares enough about you personally. Only you care about you to that extent. You know what I mean? That, that, that was, you know, when you do feel like, oh, what's everyone going to think? No one's actually thinking anything.

And by the gets round to it, even if someone did have an if someone had a negative thought about it, you don't even want them in your life anyway. So it's kind of like, actually gotta do it for you. Whatever is right for your own circumstances.

And I, I suppose what I did it with is a vision that I would, one, they go back out and do my thing, but I needed to learn some more about particular [00:09:00] areas of the business.

So going to press association at the time. It was a way for me, wasn't leaving sports, it was going into a data and technology part of, of sports I felt that I would have more control. I think when I came out of the agency world, I felt that players will do whatever players want to do. Football players are likely a whole industry and completely fickle bunch of people, and there is no real loyalty.

But if you built your own technology that is where you actually own it, control it can develop it, et cetera, that so really there was, um, I suppose there's method in the madness and as long as I, you know, you, I think for anyone who's in those situations, you do whatever's right for you, but also do have some sort of reasoning behind it.

As long as you've got that reasoning, you all know deep down why you're doing it. So I think that's why I wanted to take that step is into Deb and yeah, and it's right. There might be perceptions, but I. I sort of just, I in the end didn't care.

Leo Judkins: it's this whole story [00:10:00] from, from Steve Jobs, right? About connecting the dots, looking backwards. It's always like, afterwards it makes sense and looking forward, you kind of do it because it feels right from, you know, the way it feels and your guts or not because anybody else tells you, but yeah. So that makes a lot of sense.

Um, as you, as you went through those transitions, max, what's, what's a what's a belief or a value that you feel has changed the most for you of the of those last few years?

Max Meltzer: I've been lucky enough through the business, even for example, to strive to be able to do some secondaries, and I've been able to have a very, you know, develop a very comfortable life. For myself and for my family. And it's given me an opportunity to make personal investments and continue in my own, personal pursuit of wealth and generational wealth creation for, for my family.

And I, and I still am it probably even more driven today than ever. And, and been part of a, a venture fund called Australia Capital as well as venture partner. [00:11:00] And I've learned a lot, but I, I think what I've personally learnt over the last couple of years is not to prioritise financial milestones ahead of anything else.

Think that, um, you are a better business person if you do put more priority and focus on your health and on your personal wellbeing, mental wellbeing. So it's only. Probably only in the last couple of years I've really put huge amounts of effort into, you talked about the, the, the, the gardening, which I find is just a very, digitally unplugging experience because I think that's also an imperative to get away from.

It's, you, you very much is as close as you can get to nature and nurture, and you realise that 80% of anything you, you grow or whatever is gonna wildlife rather than yourself. But maybe that's part of the part of the gig.

But, um, even health, I've put a lot of time now into tennis and paddle and trying to make some time for myself, which I [00:12:00] never did before. I almost felt like as long as you hit financial milestones, then you can get round to you, to your health. 'Cause then you'll be in a much But the reality is your milestones are gonna consistently move in the time, which also is, I suppose, healthy, that you've got continuous milestone evolution.

But. You can't be it, the neglect. And I've actually found the healthier I am, which doesn't mean I'm in a superb shape, by the way. Now there'll be people watching going, well, I've seen you Max, and you're still, still got a beautiful tummy there. But, um, it's, I'm certainly more healthy than I've ever been and, since I've been running Strive, that is, it, it certainly helps in decision-making.

I, and I, I do find, as you know, inspiration from CEOs that I've seen have got an amazing sort of work-life balance. Like Pontus Limbal, who's an investor, Bessner investor in Strive. He has this amazing ability of maybe it's ultra cycling or whatever he's got is his, interest, which maybe I'm never going to be in that [00:13:00] world, but, you know, I, and most good CEOs have some sort of. Outlets along the way.

And I think that's something I've had to learn, to try and incorporate that in my own structure. 'Cause it makes me a better person, and that helps me with clarity and better decision-making. So that's really what I've learned in the last few years.

Leo Judkins: that's such a good story, max, because it's, it's so true, right? We, we kind of, we park our health and relationships and family, and ourselves very often just to hit business milestones or financial milestones, thinking, alright, once I'm there I'll, you know, I'll sort it all out and well, a, a once I'm, there actually never happens because we keep moving, we keep moving the finish line.

And, b it's, it's like you found, right? It's the opposite. So, so what's, what's the moment when you realise that mate, like I think very often those kinds of transformations, they often happen in these kinds of pivotal moments where we get [00:14:00] confronted by ourselves or by someone else or, or by a scare, whatever that is. So what was the moment where you realised, I've gotta sort this out?

Max Meltzer: I don't think there is personally something that is as drastic a moment for me. Mean, basically it hasn't been that healthy, right? I realised I've put on quite a lot of, a lot of weight, et cetera, which I haven't dropped. So it's not like I'm here saying this is an amazing, dropped a bit, but not as an amazing, I'm a lot healthier than I've been for years.

But, I think we've, it, it was more of a moment that I, I cannot continue being that everything else is prioritised it, because it actually didn't, I started to realise it hadn't made me feel good at all times. You know, I wasn't fear, and what is the point in what you're doing if you are also not enjoying a lot of life at the same time?

So I, I started to, that's probably the point where I started to analyse, you know, what is everyone else doing? Starting to read a lot more, started to open my mind up to other, people and, and [00:15:00] their views, just so I can understand what's the best. To realise by being actually spending more time actually enjoying the things that you want to do or being healthier, actually. Benefited everyone, including myself.

So I just felt that I was going on the start, I just somehow started to realise that the journey is fantastic on the business level, but I'd somehow been leaving myself behind. That why it wasn't a drastic moment is maybe I'd been feeling it for quite a long time.

And, and then somehow at one point I, body went, enough is enough. Let's try and, address those aspects and find a, a greater life balance. I think I found that by listening to podcasts, reading, everyone has a balance, I suppose everyone has to find it at some point.

And you think it comes naturally, and you hear all these things. You read, and you listen you don't necessarily, it doesn't necessarily land, but at some point it does land. [00:16:00] And, I found that point. Definitely found that it's been much more fruitful for me to have that positive mindset and, and get out there. That's where I'm at today.

Leo Judkins: yeah, I guess you kind of need two, things to happen, right? On the one hand, kind of what you're describing. On the one hand, just hearing it from others and seeing others around you that are really successful and, and have a good balance, take care of their health.

And on the other hand, also you're feeling that, you know, maybe not hitting this, you know, deep, dark moment, but seeing that things are slowly getting worse and then kind of almost, um, projecting that forward, extrapolating it and going, well, that's not going to end up in a great place. And then those two things together,

Max Meltzer: Yeah.

Leo Judkins: they create the change. Um, what have been some of the. Biggest things you've noticed from that in so particularly in business, you know, being a founder, super high stress, you know, you're constantly flip-flopping between different [00:17:00] topics. Business could go up and down. We were talking about this metaphor from, Elon Musk about, you know, staring into the abyss and, and eating glass, so.

What are some of the things you've found, noticed from, from just taking better care of your, your, you, the balance in life. How has that affected you and your business?

Max Meltzer: I just look at the, the, the opening up of the community tennis paddle, all that sort of racket, sports and stuff like that, what I realised is I ended up opening to a group of people, got a, got a WhatsApp group. It's about 40 people inside it. We just try and set up morning or something like that before school or And you actually, you realise there's lots and lots of execs that would like to do that.

Not, you'll find people that also are, you know, people that haven't addressed their own fitness issues, but are more than welcome to join and play as well. And you end up having a great community of people, investors, business people who you can connect to.

I think one of the big things I'd say from a health perspective is that, you know, if you do look at CEOs that look after themselves, they're [00:18:00] usually playing a sport, whether that's golf, whatever it is, or they're usually combining it with business, it can be combined. So look at that as the found that as the, the best example that I found around, fitness and, and that side of things.

But, um, I mean, I first of all always found that you've got to Whatever happens, prioritise family. Put all of your values first that are your most, you know, set your most important boundaries, because they're your, your, your foundation and, and support.

I think There is a, a, a quote that I love from, Nelson Mandela, where he says something along the lines of, there's no passion to be found, by, living a small life. And that really you should, pursue having a great life, maximising everything that's available to you. Butchered the quote, but it's along those lines and it, that's something that resonates with me because it's important in all angles to feel that you are actually [00:19:00] contributing.

So for me, it's, it's not just in, in business or my life, it's charitable work they do with. A charity called Thrive, et cetera, you know, at the moment I'm really just trying to be the best version of myself and trying to expand my horizons. I feel like I'm growing more opportunities, being a little bit more positive around people. Positive mindset I'm just trying to spend more time finding the best version of myself, which is definitely a maturity thing as well. I'm not

Leo Judkins: one of the things that I really love about you, max, is that you are highly, empathetic. That is so difficult as a founder, right? Because you've gotta make the tough decisions. It's, on your, in, in, in your case, it's a real superpower, but it's, it's also a liability, right? It's also something that, can really get in your way.

So, can you share a moment where maybe criticism or, or judgment has hit you harder than you expected? And, and how, how you dealt with that?

Max Meltzer: anything that you do, right, even if you're building a company, get criticism around the [00:20:00] company for whatever reason, you are going to take it personally, I've adapted to care less for the benefit of them and myself. To be, just gotta continue to, to build a thicker skin. That's all part of the, of the game.

But at the same time, I'm trying not to go too far because like to believe that that humility, the normal aspects of me, is why I am where I am today. So I don't want to be an extent when I, I'm a leader who really doesn't care that much any more because like, personally, the view I have of myself is I'm probably not the smartest person in the industry or this room or anything like that.

I probably just feel that I'm someone who's as hard as possible, and I'll be there every single day, and I'll offer that discipline, and hopefully I'll get results. And I don't care where I am and [00:21:00] environments I'm in, and I can, I believe that I'm a person who can communicate across any threshold. Maybe my honesty can be both a, a, a bad thing and a good thing, but maybe that honesty is what draws people to me and makes me more likeable and more investible.

Leo Judkins: the thing is also, you, obviously, you, you shouldn't change yourself, right? You should just be authentically you, and that's like, that's your superpower. It's what makes you good at, you know, any area of the business, right, that have it. Being able to put yourself in some, into somebody else's head and trying to understand them and, that, empathy I think is key to business development, investment, any, any, any area. And, um, trying to on that is probably not the right thing to do.

Max Meltzer: You're just going to have to accept that it's going to be some, some hard hits from time to time. So that is the the lifestyle of, of a founder I think, or any business person. Just find a way of, being a little hap diversify your risk in whatever terms that [00:22:00] means for yourself and just enjoy things so that, that's probably where, where I'm at.

I've found in the last few months, I've got a coach that I meet once a week, for an hour at a time. I find that highly beneficial just to recalibrate my thought process around working. He in particular is trying to focus me on looking after myself, he believes that the biggest asset to a business. Agree is, you know, looking founders have to look after themselves and whatever that means, it could actually still be completely business focused and around executive priorities.

But it's making sure you're, you're isolating that time for you, for yourself, I think I've shared this in link LinkedIn before. I don't journal about myself, but I journal daily to my daughter. I write to her and have done since she was born, a daily journal, just talking to her about what's happening around her, my feelings, my experiences and thoughts around it.

And I also find that to be [00:23:00] incredibly cathartic, but also takes me out of it if I'm ever stressed. That is an amazing way of completely removing myself from whatever I'm thinking and activating apart my brain that is parental responsibilities and, and objectifying the. Whatever is going on to a point, which totally calms me as well, and I found ways over time to deal with, what's around me without changing me.

But they, certain things like that, little, little additions are found to be incredibly powerful

Leo Judkins: yeah. You say they're little. I think they're massive. Max. I don't see many people doing that. I mean, that journaling and writing to your daughter, right? That that's, that brings and also a level of empathy, but also calmness and kindness to how you maybe judge yourself throughout the day. Right. Some of the mistakes and challenges that you go through, you're going to word them in a way that perhaps you, you wouldn't talk to yourself like that.

And I think it's such, that's such a powerful, powerful exercise. So, they kind of go hand in hand Because it's so easy to sit in [00:24:00] isolation as a founder and CEO and to, you know, stay inside your own head and to make those decisions in isolation. Doing your best, of course. And, and making those decisions to the best of your abilities.

But having an outside view and, and vocalising things, writing things down, talking them through with someone else, they absolutely help you clarify some of those thoughts you might have around the really tough decisions that you can't talk to, to anybody else about. So have you, have you found that as well?

Max Meltzer: I think you, I think you've absolutely nailed exactly the experiences that I've had. I think you're exactly right. When I'm journaling to my daughter, I'm completely. Softer language completely and are much better at assessing the overall situation or, opportunity that's in front of me and trying to actually give advice. The weirdest thing, of course, is me giving advice to her is probably giving advice to myself, at the same time. And

Prioritising my family's been a massive part of that. And, I think everyone will do that. But if you don't, I think that's the worst thing possible is not to [00:25:00] prioritise family and cuts at your values. So never cut your values, you know?

Leo Judkins: when you say that dropping, dropping your daughter off at school is, is the highlight of your day. Right? And, I, I love that. I think it's, it's, tell me a little bit more about that and, um yeah, why that's so important for you and, and kind of what goes through your head when you're thinking about that afterwards as an overarching thing.

Max Meltzer: you know, it's about a 25 or 20-minute drive at best. And I find it's the best time that I have with my daughter because first of it's a lot of singing. Like any young girl, I imagine lots of singing, lots of K-pop at the moment, which is crazy. But, um, I've got no problems in the summer, have the windows down, people know.

But I find that after like 10 minutes in the journey, I don't need to ask her any questions. 'Cause she starts then bring forward her own points, and she starts telling me about her previous day. So rather than me having, asking her and her day went the day before, well she tells me the day [00:26:00] afterwards in the journey and I, I find it very grounding, very humbling.

And I think there is nothing more important than your family. So I would never sacrifice that experience. And my long-term ambition is just to always be able to drop her off at school whenever it's possible.

But I wouldn't, I wouldn't go as far as say I do this for my daughter at work and stuff. I've got a very different opinion on that kind of conversational piece when people say I'm doing it for my family because, I don't think that's necessarily true. And I'm not necessarily, personally, I'm not sure if that's. Good.

'Cause I wanna be intrinsically, I'm intrinsically motivated personally. I know I get a lot of energy meeting people and meeting founders and love giving them advice about how to invest or if we want to invest in them or how to raise and, and sell and everything else that goes with it. And, and even my own business around strategic elements.

But it comes from insider. But the benefit is they, that, that I get to do great things with my [00:27:00] kids. But it's those little times, there's magic in all of it. And, but I, I don't, I don't, it's, and it's a byproduct of what I like to, I'm motivated for and, and buy.

Leo Judkins: amazing. It's amazing Max, how you prioritise that from an intrinsic motivational perspective because I think that's so important. We, this, it's so easy to. To look at what the world expects from us as dads, as founders, and to kind of just go with that and be someone that perhaps, I don't know, we don't feel we are.

So that intrinsic motivation piece, I think is, is really crucial. Not just for doing it, but we're actually enjoying it and not having to pretend to be someone that you're not. Right. And, I think that's really important, and I wanted to dive into the gardening bit, tell me a little bit more about the gardening.

There's something you do with your daughter as well, I believe, and, and something that you find, massively, helpful for disconnecting. I can totally imagine it not having the phone there, not having the, the busyness of life. So how did [00:28:00] that, how did that start, and what are some of the things that you are, you're noticing from it, from just kind of getting back to nature?

Max Meltzer: I can't believe I'm really talking about it really on a, on a podcast, but I

Leo Judkins: Oh, may

Max Meltzer: You bring out all this information out of people, but it's great. I mean, that's why people, love listening to you and, and what you do, but, um, yeah, I mean, I do, the main focus is vegetable gardening. So I, I, I love growing the fruits of our labour, so to speak.

I find it very exciting to be able to take, to actually take all various different or whatever you are, whatever you're trying to grow, taking it from seed, trying to give it an environment to, to, to grow in, to see how every year can be a different experience for whatever you are trying to grow and the impacts of. Conditions that you're surrounded, by learning a little bit more all the time and then growing things that you might not have thought you could actually grow.

And watching it over time, it's an amazing experience. I find it, you know, I. [00:29:00] Very relaxing. To be away from the yeah, to be away from technology completely, is massively important to be actually engaging with life. It gives you a bit more of a, a grounding when you're lost in all this stuff that you are, you're travelling in all these planes, you're actually back in the, the dirt and growing things is, is, I think it's very calming.

And that, that, that's what brought me to that charity that I work with called Thrive. That is a charity that helps with. Health, through gardening, because I think it's a ma it's, it's actually amazing though. I would highly recommend gardening for mental health because it's highly rewarding. And it gives you an escape and a, a personal pleasure. And actually you spend more time in your own thoughts, more solo time or more time with your family. And yeah, I, I, I, I found it incredibly, incredibly beneficial.

Leo Judkins: it makes a lot of sense, max, because the. You know, if you've had burnout, for example, you talk to a psychologist, the thing they will [00:30:00]tell you are going back to nature, right? And so just being able to switch off and having a, a place where you can do that,

Max Meltzer: there's a guy called Hector Hughes. A wonderful founder who runs a company called Unplugged. He runs cabins all around the UK and Spain where you have an opportunity to take a few nights to basically unplug. Love the idea of it. I love shouting out founders for doing great things, and I think he's right at the forefront of, creating those kinds of experiences for people. If you, if you find it difficult at home, maybe find a way of getting away from it for a few days.

Leo Judkins: It's a good way of actually having that reset, right? And, and maybe that then helps you in your day-to-day life as well, where you then realise doing that for a few days that, okay, I can actually incorporate this in day-to-day life as well.

Max Meltzer: Totally agree. Totally agree.

Leo Judkins: so take me back to, that moment of, you know, leaving Canby and founding strive. I'd love to hear a little bit about that journey, how that started, what the decision [00:31:00] making process was for you. Some of the challenges, maybe some of the self-doubt. So can you talk me through that, that period of life where, um, where that was all happening?

Max Meltzer: I was Chief Commercial Officer at Kambi at the time. Very much. Working closely with Christian Lillian, the CEO, who is a very methodical thinker. The time we had from, let's say 2017 when we were spending a lot of time in particular us being the attractive new market, potentially was coming towards at the time, spent a lot of time with Kambi and the rest of the team, analysing the way that we would enter the market licences and, office locations and hiring plans, investment levels, et cetera. Spent a lot of time into that.

A lot of, early meetings in 2017, and then it did indeed happen [00:32:00] when PA was repealed 2018. Opened up a huge opportunity for Canby. At that point I'd just hired, who is now my co-founder, Damien Shere. Well, and, another amazing salesperson at the time was Sarah Robertson. We actually had a really, really cool team. We had, really great tech guy in there, James Letford. We had, another sales guy in the industry called Ross, Maine, and pulled together this really sweet commercial team.

I mean, actually remember it, it can be them saying that the C FFO saying, I've got take a bigger budget, hire more people. And I actually said, no. I think that's, that's very rare. Most people do just take more budget to hire more, but the way I saw it is you, you, as long as you have a very good sales process, you and a, and a good split of territory, you'll know the capacity in which people can work. And to get the best out of people. Sometimes it's to have less than the more, [00:33:00] but in, in, to summarise.

Between that group, we ended up doing the so many deals in North America through absolute graft, and some great route market intelligence work and an approach, that was unmatched commercially, that made us do deals with DraftKings, rush Street, interactive Parks, casino, Penn National Gaming, Nation, Sun, and so on.

And at one point, Canby had 54%, I believe, of all wages, regulated sports wages were going through Kambi system. At one particular time. It was, height of everything and obviously there were attractive buyers for Kambi at that time. . It was a very exciting time.

But what I did identify in America is the ecosystem wasn't necessarily well-prepared for the regulations that had occurred in the [00:34:00] US and a lot of the player account management systems that were available at that time were not prepared for that. They were ready for social casino or were actually quite archaic, PAMs.

And we would know that more than anyone because Kambi didn't have its own. Pam still today doesn't have its own Pam, which means that for Kambi or any sports, but like that to take a wager that they have to work with other PAMs. So we, we always had to bring other player account management companies into deals, whoever they were.

So Damon and I had a very clear insight into the strengths and weaknesses of different in the marketplace and we identified. There was a space for an adaptable modular player account management system that could adapt easily to regulations in the US to be brought to market.

At one point, I was strategically thinking that [00:35:00] should have owned a pan themselves at one point. It was something that I was pushing for. Um, I believe that our, you know, it can be, and I think there still is probably the right decision it is, is that they've been very focused on being the best at sportsbook that they could be.

And that sometimes that niche focus is very important. And in fact, that niche focus for strive has actually been one of the major benefits of why we're, as successful as we are today. No one in the US or Canada has more B2B operator customers than Strive does.

But it was an interesting time because our pre, well, our seed round to get started was, an investment from Betson into our business. And the reason why David and I went out to, to build the business and seek an operator like Betson was because we knew in America it was so important to have a proof of concept and make sure [00:36:00] you're actually licensed and live in America. People wouldn't believe or trust in your capabilities. Everyone was trying to get into America at the time, unless you were actually there.

And I really believe that you had a capability of being a successful business. So to raise the, the, the money we did from Betson, they would then become an operator in Colorado. It was, it was very important to us, and we knew that they also wanted to enter into an Ontario.

But obviously that was, it was difficult when we left Kambi because I think people were unsure if we were setting up something that was going to be competitive to Kambi And I don't think we could reassure people enough that it was not what we were going to do. And I'm sure that, you know, if I was in the, the, the Christian's shoes or anyone's shoes at that time as a CEO, it would've been quite scary for me because that meant we, you know, me as the CCO and Damien as my right-hand man, [00:37:00] a big chunk out of the commercial function, was, was difficult.

But we obviously, we, we tried our best. And I can tell you that, you know. I worked my entire notice period at, at Kambi. I gave everything to making sure that the handover was as smooth as possible. Hiring the right people, encouraging promotions of the relevant people, I thought would be fantastic.

Like Sarah, who is phenomenal involved in, hiring their new head of account management, who I hear is doing great things and helping them with the hr. Know, I, a big believer as well by the way, that when you exit, exit really well like bring value show, value show that when you walked out the door, they'd go, well, he really did a great job in passing it on and doing, and that, that was, that, was something I wanted to do, and I thought I would always do. I, I'd love to see that from, from everyone.

Canby have been, we're very good at that. You know, in, in, in, in [00:38:00]understanding that part, even though it was, there were some underlying concerns about the competitive which there wasn't. It was a necessary time for, for Damien and I to do that because we are hugely driven and ambitious.

And there is a point where you can only, you, you, there is a delta of course between what are you, you're able to gain by being in certain employed situations compared to what you can achieve getting out there, being an entrepreneur. And it's, well, some people ask me, do I have any thoughts about regrets or like, not, not in an instant, it's been an amazing.

Life changing, taking me to where I had always envisioned or hoped that I would be. And we're now on a journey that could take us even further in life. And even to be in a position where I can now give other people advice about fundraising or [00:39:00] building businesses is a beautiful place to be. So it did.

It's not that it came without its bumps and bruises on, on an exit, I think that is something you're going to have to come But everyone now, retrospectively, everyone's very respectful of what's been achieved by David and me at Strive and the way that we did leave it exit, and we tried to do our best.

And I think being professional in any transition like that. And is it, it just, it just is really important. And we made that the, the, the pivotal part of our plan was to do well by. Our previous organisation and, and thank them for the ability to, given the platform that we had to learn and, and be as successful in the US which we've now, um, built on top of.

Leo Judkins: Such good advice because the not just, I mean, people often talk about that the industry is small, and you might work together, or you might be competitors [00:40:00] later on, and that's why it's important to exit. I think that's all nonsense, to be honest. I think it's just, it's just a nice thing to do, right. And I think, um, just, just being mature about it is such a, such a key behaviour that we should all display more of.

Max Meltzer: I, if I In interviews, for example, someone who's actually, saying negative things about their employer previously, it. It really deters me first of all, every employer has given you an opportunity, even if it didn't work out, companies are all at different stages of their progression or life cycles.

Adaptions, if you hear about redundancies, again, that's something I hear redundancies as well. It's like a highly charged emotional time for certain companies when they do that. No one really ever wants to do any of this stuff. Companies are not, are, are a collective of, of humans just trying to do their best.

And I think. You, you, whether it's n exit or interviewing you just representing yourself to show you, [00:41:00] what you achieved. Um, being respectful to previous employers, it's so attractive. It's like this person, like they, they could be really great in our business. They're not going to, you know, when they leave, they if, because all people tend to leave at some point for their own career progression.

Tend to find that strive that we're like, you know, we then get a lot of our people get headhunted by the top businesses because we like to bring through people. And maybe we're not going to be able to match the salaries of fanatics or whoever, but we give people opportunity. But it, we just do it for, we like to see people that are respectful. And I think that I only expect what I did myself, by the way, like, and I'm a big believer in that as well. Only expect of people what I would do myself. And a big part of that, I think, is just being respectful and holding your values high because it, it represents you all the time.

Leo Judkins: And also on the other side of the table, right? On our side of the table, when you have to [00:42:00] go through redundancies with employees, or you have to

Max Meltzer: I,

Leo Judkins: off someone because of under performance or whatever it is, same kind of thing, I believe, you know, even if you don't believe somebody is a, is a great performer. Treating someone with respect and dignity I think is crucial because that might be because of something happening in life or whatever it, I think, I think it's just such a good character trait to just be respectful to people.

Max Meltzer: I had someone who we had to let go once, and I had a phone call from someone who said, well, would you recommend them? I gave them a, a raving. Positive review of that person and why they should be given the job. Even though I, I kind of know that that person doesn't really, wasn't happy about, you know, how the business ended, you know how it ex may have, they might have felt about I think that that's, that's how I feel about most people.

I actually think that people can thrive in other organisations [00:43:00] there's, so, there's, there could be no angst in any of it. Just we all move on to our to do what's best for us and our families.

Leo Judkins: Yeah. So true. Just wanna talk a little bit about, your founder journey as axe. We've spoken about kinda leaving Kambi, starting the business. Um, you've also mentioned kind of the that the founder grind drains you even when you seem to found, find on the outside. You've mentioned things like rollercoaster moments, the founding strives, strive.

You talk me a little bit through. Kind of the ups and downs, and especially the things that maybe people on the outside wouldn't necessarily expect. Um, and how that's how that's formed you and your business over time.

Max Meltzer: So there are so many aspects of it. One thing that we've, I've learned a lot about is the, the fundraising aspect of it. So obviously we talked about the seed, around investments that we got from Betson, but you know, a few years later we did raise money from, uh. Open bet as a lead, [00:44:00] investor in that, that sec, that later round followed by, companies like, or, firms like the nuts and nuts and holdings who are large share of net end and stratus capital.

So, And fundraising in itself is a very. Can be, of course, a very stressful experience at, at different times, different years present cycles of the economy and how cash flows and cost of cash. , The dynamics today, of course, is you see of the expectations around AI implementation impact that that could have on. The growth of your business, the, the, the potential competition that, that, that could create.

And I see that in the world of fundraising, et cetera, people really looking at how AI can ex exponentially grow businesses. Alongside that, you know, level of level, once you get more in, you then have to become [00:45:00] quite the expert at how you. Manage those influencers in your business.

Sometimes you might find there are conflicts, at board level. Doesn't mean like drama conflicts, but you know, different directions of interest for investors and so on. And so you find yourself new, you can go the founder journey wise. You go from being com to the founder who's operationally. In the everyday to then realising you're spending a lot of time in the, in the strategic and board level, focus and trying to bring people along in the journey.

I think you, you, certainly a lot about how to spend the money that you do raise or invest and how to make it more. Efficient. There's definitely, for us, one of the key learnings we spent a lot of time on, I'd say they were actually more like key hires, big name hires at the [00:46:00] time for good brands behind them. But that was kind of part of an important part of the marketing push in the earlier days to get recognition. Like we were going up against people like Playtech and so on. I mean these are massive brands and just little old strive coming

So we spent a lot of money in that. We didn't spend a marketing dollar per se, but we spent it in big hires That would look incredible when you were sat around a table.

Time, really it was, it, it became more of a grinder investment in product and people, and the, the more, the smaller you could make it, the, the better we had a big office in Vancouver, Canada. We still have a core group of very good people in Vancouver, Canada. Perhaps we didn't need to go as big as we did there in the first instance.

We might have found that our, you know, one of the learnings we found is maybe we wanted to have a 24 7 tech support sort of set up. But again, maybe we. [00:47:00] should have kept it smaller, more focused on the earlier days. But these are little nuances of every company where you start to figure out, retrospectively, what could happen.

But you, the, the, to the point of the day-to-day rollercoaster, you know, the rollercoaster, you could win a deal, but then you could lose an employee who you thought was going to be a long term with you or something like that, or. you have a technical issue, or at the same time as you closing a new deal, there never seems to be this, very calm day, that you, that you have.

So even though it's more exciting, you get more revenue in. Everything else, there's, there's, there's always more issues. We're very lucky that we've got great, a great tech team, a really great tech leader takes, that does take a lot of the, the Australian stresses, but every day can be quite, quite the battle.

And um, you know, I think to our conversation, I think of their before is [00:48:00] really the founder in. The founder, apart from some of the, the big moments closing a big deal or a lot of the time the founders are only being presented with some of the worst bits of business because, you know, if something's happened or, you know, because otherwise it's working fine. It doesn't need your involvement. So it's only usually you tend to only find worst aspects.

And that's a that's, that's, that could be quite a drain, in itself, but it's something to, overcome. All that really matters Ultimately is you've got to drive revenues, reduce costs, focus on your bottom line, to, at this point in, in, in the business. 'Cause we've gone past just the growth at all costs type scale at this point.

That, that, that in itself make means you have to make some very key decisions. Um, and I think it is about, you know, it actually focuses your mind a lot more on talent. Talent retention, hiring the right talent. A lot of time and effort that goes into that have to [00:49:00] be very, very careful in your approach to that.

And, so that, that, that's from a founder's journey perspective, it's again, it's tougher skin. Not to get, to be able to deal with those rollercoaster moments. 'Cause that is, all that life is, is a rollercoaster, emergence, and, uh. Finding the right people around you, the right talent that you can trust in and, really putting your head into numbers is where we've ended up in our founder's journey.

And that, that's the kind of advice that I'd say crucially to anyone who's a business now as to try and find you, your head about. And also equally, if anyone ever wants to talk to me about this stuff, I am open to, I love talking to founders as well and giving any advice I can. And learning myself. Think we all have to be a continuous learning journey and I certainly am, but yeah, that's, that's probably a bit more on the, the founder's journey side.

Leo Judkins: Can I, can I just ask you about the, um, like that transition that you mentioned there in the beginning, right. From kind of [00:50:00] being more operator to more strategic? I think that's one of the biggest mental shifts that founders have to make as. Business scales.

There's obviously different levels as we hit 10 employees, 25, probably 50, probably 200, that those probably the kind of the milestones on how business, how culture in the business changes as well and where. But from a founder perspective, I think that's the biggest, that's the biggest change that needs to be made. Right. Operational to strategic, letting go of the work.

Like how did you find that Max? How, what was. What, what were some of the things that you found most difficult and maybe some of the learnings that you've had that perhaps would help other founders listening to this as well?

Max Meltzer: think the first. Curveball on that learnings that we've had is that whilst you are going through that experience, are your employees. What you're finding is those star people in your first 10 hires might really struggle when you get to 50. 'Cause they want to [00:51:00] be in everything as well. Like you are, and you find that whilst you might be struggling with the growth, they also might be struggling with the growth.

And the problem is, there are some people who might be really good being an employee of one to 10 who would be really horrible at employee 'cause they just can't adapt even if you really try. And that's not a negative thing. People have certain roles in certain organisations to thrive. Just 'cause someone doesn't work now doesn't mean they're bad people or bad at what they're doing, but they've gotta find their cycle.

There are founders like that. There are some founders who just can never get past being the, the original power ups, the generators, and then they hand over to other CEOs as they go, which is also good to know.

I think what I've found is also being aware fully kind of CEO am I, and what kind of, where do I fit? I don't think there is a single CEO out there. That is a good CEO for every type of business. And that's important as well. So you could talk, you, whoever you are inspired by as a CEO, put them in an environment. [00:52:00]They're not necessarily going to be successful.

So you, you, it takes a certain kind of mindset, but yes, from my own mindset to have gone from. Being in the weeds every single day. I think what happens is talent really ends up telling you. So our CTO will be like, Jim, you um, can you just back up?

Leo Judkins: out of the way.

Max Meltzer: what I've personally tried to identify, if I don't feel like I'm adding value enough, then I shouldn't be in those discussions because there's even more damage that I can do. I'm the CEO. If I suggest something, someone might feel they should do it because I've said it, doesn't mean it's the right thing for business.

So I try to stick my head in where is actually adding the most value. That and the and, and what I am learning is to only be in those conversations. So that I can add value, the best advice I get, and I consistently get, and I don't necessarily sure I do implement it, but I am trying to implement it, is only do the jobs that you can do.

And I'm really trying to bring that into my work and I can only [00:53:00]recommend that to others as well, because otherwise you are wasting your productivity you can really bring to a business. So I, my, my highest recommendation. What I've seen as being beneficial is to look at what you've got in your calendar and your what's coming up and decide is that only you who can make those decisions or do those things in the, in the, in what's in your calendar?

If not, start wiping away and finding out who to delegate to, who can do that or something of that. I, so I think that's important, particularly as you scale.

Leo Judkins: Okay. Last question for you, max. so we spoke a lot about your daughter and your balance you have in life, and the journaling, which I loved as well. So my question is, what legacy do you want your daughter to see? Not, not just for you as a sel, CEO, but for you as a, as a father,

Max Meltzer: I want her to know that she was at the forefront of everything that I thought acted around, that I gave everything I could be and do to be there for her. I want to encourage her [00:54:00] to be a very confident person. I want her to feel that I gave her the, the support and the tools to be a good person. Her to always feel that she had been loved throughout everything.

So that's important of the journalist, that she knows how special and loved at all times that she, she is. for me, the representation for her is that someone that was loving, that cared, that was fun. 'Cause I think fun's important. We don't live these lives just to be these, you know, boring monsters, you know, wanted to, to, and I do, I do try and bring that into business to do you better.

And likewise for her, I just want her to be a confident, have a fun time in life, and enjoy what's out there, you know, so I don't see them as being unachievable objectives or unachievable, shows as I am to her. They, they're [00:55:00] almost the things that I wanted to remember before are the things that I can do every single day. Not specific milestones, or he did this, or he was x. just want her to know those, those parts that are the loving and the fun, the hardworking, caring aspects. I want her to remember those.

Leo Judkins: Love it. Thank you very much, mate. Great. Great podcast. Thank you for sharing so openly and talking, talking through it all. Really appreciate it.

Max Meltzer: No worries. Enjoyed it.Retry