Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): [00:00:00] I have the scars and the bruises to show that I was a small gladiator in this fight, cause I was up against some powerful interests.

I lost a lot of business.

I work hard. I'm not the brightest ship in the port, but nobody's gonna work harder than me.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): ​I didn't get the courtesy of any of those casino moguls calling me and talking it through when they found out I was onboarding Poker Stars to bring igaming to America. 

I lost them all, and I really thought that I was gonna lose my job, but Isai Scheinberg said to me Bill, I need you focused on the value proposition of bringing iGaming. I don't need you focused on how you're gonna pay your mortgage, so Isai took care of me 

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3):  ​He was spending $40 million a year in lobbyists in Washington to get a bill passed in Congress, and I said to him, You're never gonna get a bill passed in Congress, Congress doesn't regulate gaming, these people are taking your money

You've been doing it year over year. You haven't even gotten a committee hearing.

[00:01:00] I said Give me 10% of that money one time, not annually, one time 10% of $40 million, and I'll get this done in two years. And we did 

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3):  ​I had a migraine headache, a really bad headache, and my mom comes home, takes me to the hospital, and I hear the doctor take my parents out of the room, shut the door, and he said to my mom and dad I think your son has spinal meningitis, and if he does, this is gonna be a big problem, life-threatening 

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3):  ​I was in a coma for 45 days. I lost half my body mass. I developed diabetes juvenile diabetes from that. Seven spinal taps in the course of 45 days, trying to monitor it. That summer, seven teachers died from spinal meningitis. That changed my life forever  

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): He has to go on a Congressional trip abroad, and my dad said Billy, would you like to come? So I went with him to Israel, had to pay my own way. 

So we stayed at the King David Hotel, [00:02:00] he says We gotta go out tonight, I don't want to go to this dinner. It's a formal dinner, whatever, and it'll be okay. 

But there's two special agents outside with long guns that are there to protect us. They're not gonna let us go wander, so this is what you're gonna do: you're gonna go to the end of the hallway, they're gonna follow you, I'm gonna sneak down the staircase, cause if I take the elevator, they'll hear it. 

I said dad hold on, hold on, then what am I gonna do?

He goes, you figure it out, you find a way to get out of here ​

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): My adversaries, the NFL, all their lobbyists, the brick and mortar casinos that were against us, I think I could have treated them more as a happy warrior than as an angry gladiator

I felt very angry at the way I was being treated, disrespected. It was me versus the world. So I had to be really tough. And had I knew the outcome, I might have been more gentlemanly along the way.

Leo Judkins: Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast, where we uncover the human side of [00:03:00] some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and as an ex iGaming director term performance coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Entain, 365, flutter, and many more to help them build the habits.

To achieve sustainable high performance. 

In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same. So with that being said, let's dive in.

Leo Judkins: hey everybody. Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast. I am here with Bill Pascal ii, an amazing guest who Bill we met in, uh, in Lisbon. Julia introduced us really cool. Bill has quarterbacked, uh, a 10-year legal battle bringing sports betting to America. In that journey, he lost every single major client he had taken on.

he's enjoyed consecutive legal defeats, and [00:04:00] actually one few as well. Uh, and just, uh, unfortunately just, uh, we were just talking about it over, just over a year ago. He lost his, his dad, uh, who was his best friend, has gone through so many ups and downs. Uh, bill that, uh, yeah, we're gonna talk about what leadership actually looks like when nobody's watching.

I'm really excited to talk to you today, bill. Thank you for being on the podcast.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): Leo thank you for having me I'm very excited about this It was a pleasure to meet you just a few short weeks ago in Lisbon and you're a dynamic personality and I had a great vibe when I first met you and that's all that matters

Leo Judkins: Thank you very much. I, uh, really appreciate you taking the time. Bill, I, I wanted to start with, this kind of this, yeah. This, this thing that you're called right, the architect of American Sports betting, which I absolutely love. When, when you hear that, do you feel that that's accurate? What does that mean to you and how, you know, how do you feel when you hear that?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): You know Leo I'm 61 years old I'm an old man [00:05:00] and I've lived a decent life but it hasn't been an easy life

But the way I was raised and brought up in the humble town of Patterson New Jersey which is very it's sort of like Liverpool okay patters it's got a lot of history My dad was the mayor there but that experience and you know my brothers and I felt Leo growing up we felt jealous of a lot of our friends cause we went to Catholic high school Grammar school because they had money and they had privilege 

And you know when they turned 16 they got a car We didn't we couldn't afford it That was the best gift my parents could give me Now my parents provided for us paid for our college our law school We had food on a table we had clothes on our backs But you know if you're if you're born with privilege you're really not given the full opportunity of appreciating what the most of the world has to go through every day

Leo Judkins: Yeah.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): So it's a [00:06:00] nice very nice characterization to say I was the architect of something I have the the the scars and the bruises to show that I was a small gladiator in this fight I call it the David versus Goliath cause I was up against some powerful interests I lost a lot of business but nobody's gonna cry a tear for me because I work hard I'm not the brightest ship in the port but nobody's gonna work harder than me

I mean, I get up early I go late I'm not a nine to five guy And the most important thing I will tell you is I love a challenge I don't like just to have clients who hire me that have easy stuff and I have a lot of stories to tell about the challenges 

My best ever experience was meeting a guy by the name of Joe Brennan who's an [00:07:00] American He used to work for Google formed an organization called iMEGA the Interactive Media Entertainment Inning Association Joe's well known in the industry is great and smart far smarter than me but he's never been able to monetise his intellect And so I've tried to help him a little bit He's finally launched his sports book and that's going well and I'm all about this stage of my life relationships

I love meeting people that I like and do work with them And I'm at a stage you know 30 years ago 35 years ago If I met you and I didn't like you I would still work for you because I was desperate

I'm privileged to be able to pick and choose my projects

Leo Judkins: Yep.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): one of the greatest honors in life was being able to bring iGaming to America through Joe Brennan and Isai Scheinberg the founder of Poker Stars and to also do the 10-year campaign to [00:08:00] repeal PASPA

Leo Judkins: I wanted to, dive into something that you said earlier about privilege and growing up through challenge and actually appreciating the hard work and what's required.

So tell me a little bit more about that. Why was that the biggest gift that your parents could have given you? I mean if, when you look at others that perhaps haven't grown up that way, what do, what's the difference between what you see with them and what you're like, how you operate day to day?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): I grew up in a house mom well my mom still owns, we won't let her live there cause it's in a very challenged neighbourhood when we grew up.

We grew up on a block ninth Avenue in Patterson New Jersey Patterson New Jersey is the third-largest city in the state 175,000 people There's a lot of history in that town I don't know if you ever heard of Lou Costello from Abbott and Costello Lou Costello was born and raised in Patterson and went [00:09:00] to Hollywood from Patterson New Jersey He had the same experience challenges Very blue collar I wouldn't say poverty but you know low in the middle class scale .

And I grew up about 10 blocks from where he grew up so the on the block I could name everybody on the block We were the only white family we had predominantly African Americans Latinos at that time Puerto Ricans And then Colombians and Dominicans came in and like we never thought anything of it So we never had this view that oh I'm a white man and I'm better than everybody else We always viewed people whether however they cooked their food or worshipped their God or not respect right That's the end of the day.

But those experiences having to walk to school not having dad and mom [00:10:00] be able to drive you to school to bring lunch to school cause we couldn't afford paying whatever it was to get the lunch out to school And then you're frowned upon right cause you're looked at as lower class That's okay the time it was tough I never realized that my dad who was a college professor not a lawyer before he got into politics he never preached to us, He led by example.

And so there are different things that my mom and dad did for us that we'll never forget And each day as we grow on in years we appreciate more 

So I feel at a competitive disadvantage to others who grew up with what I'm calling a more comfortable environment privilege might be too strong of a word but like when you're born into wealth what have you done to contribute to that [00:11:00] And now all you have to do is maintain that or grow it You don't have to start from ground zero

Leo Judkins: I actually think it's and it's an advantage, right? Like at least when it comes to how you operate day to day, you will have seen so much more challenge you have, you've brought, you will have had, you will have, have so much more resilience than anybody else. You will power through.

Harder, right? When you go through challenges and hardships, and I think, uh, we often talk about this in the Mastermind is that it's always our biggest challenges where we grow the most, right? They thought they are our most pivotal moments, the ones that we are really ashamed of or where we really fail or where we get burnt down, right?

Those are the moments where that's the fuel that we sometimes need to create the change that we want.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): Absolutely

Leo Judkins: how has that been for you, bill? Like where, where has that been true for you? That, you know, those kinds of specific pivotal moments in your life where you felt something's happened here and I need to change things, I need to change how I operate, what I [00:12:00] do?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): in fourth grade I'm gonna get a bit emotional but I had a dear friend Tommy Blackburn.

And Tommy and I did a lot of great stuff together as kids riding bikes and playing stick ball and all those things And I came to school on a Monday morning whatever year it was fourth grade and the teacher announced and I didn't know this cause I didn't see Tommy on Sunday cause we would go to church.

 Tommy would do his own thing Tommy lived right around the corner from me about a block away Tommy went with a bunch of boys Sunday afternoon and hopped fences And he and he hopped the fence fell into a swimming pool and drowned He couldn't swim that was a life changer for me because it was my first experience with Death not of a family member but of a good mate. 

And that changed me a bit because I looked at [00:13:00] life a little differently maybe I'm not gonna live forever where you think you are when you're you know 10 years old right You think you're gonna live forever and looking at life just a little differently it was hard, the grief was painful it, it is built and grew me and I think I became a better person for that.

bout six years later I'm going to Don Bosco Tech High School which is a Catholic high school predominantly technical right You're gonna do auto parts or carpentry or electronics I was going to college cause my dad it was just that was the given you're going to college 

So when I was 16 and a half years old in the summer I'm a lifeguard at a local swimming pool Like we never had a pool We had to go to the community pool So I was a lifeguard there And I was a not a waiter I was a bus boy cleaning tables at a restaurant a local [00:14:00] Italian restaurant that my mom or dad would pick me up when I was done with work and this was cross-town so that was a lot on them 

And had lifeguard duty during the day went home for an hour or two and then went to the restaurant It was called La Trattoria And my dad picks me up probably around 10 10 30 at night something like that on a weeknight And I had a migraine headache a really bad headache which I had never had And I was complaining in the car and my dad said well you're working so hard go home relax. 

So I went home went to bed It was summer it wasn't a school night I woke up with like real massive head pain and my brothers called my mom who was working She was in a doctor's office not a nurse but administrator And my mom had the wherewithal think there's something bad here She comes home takes me to the hospital [00:15:00] 

The next thing I know I'm in a fog and I hear the doctor take my parents out of the room where he was examining me touch the back of my neck They did some blood work feeling the skull taking the vitals.

And It's funny because I was out of it I couldn't see great it was foggy were in the doorway They didn't shut the door And he said to my mom and dad I will get confirmation of this in another 15 20 minutes but I think your son has spinal meningitis 

And if he does, this is gonna be a big problem, Life threatening.

It's the last thing I remember I did have spinal meningitis It travels up the spine into the cavity of the brain My mom saved my life had she given me aspirin or something or waited a day would've got into the cavity of the brain. 

And my dad always commits us I think [00:16:00] some of it got in their son So obviously I survived but I was in a coma for 45 days I went from 140 pounds I don't know kilo conversion but down to 70 I lost half my body mass I developed diabetes juvenile diabetes from that 

But my mom and dad tells the story that that night when they moved me into the hospital cause of course my mom took me there in the morning They did a spinal tap where they go into your spine to get the fluid and he said bill you had seven spinal taps in the course of 45 days trying to monitor it there is a medical journal called the New England journal of Medicine It's put out by Harvard in that because I was able to survive 

They had to shut down the restaurant [00:17:00] had to shut down the swimming pool to test to make sure nobody else got it, Fortunately no one else got it.

But that summer seven teachers died They were older than me obviously from spinal meningitis that changed my life forever so that you know fortunately I've lived a good life 61 years old I've had known Diabetes for 45 years 46 years and I'm relatively healthy I didn't shut my life down in terms of like you know drinking and carrying on and stuff like that.

But I became far more focused was going I was striving to be a professional baseball player was good I was a centre fielder for my high school team and I was a lead off hitter I wasn't a power hitter but I was fast and I could get on base and I had the chance to get a scholarship to college I [00:18:00] when I came out of the hospital I was too frail and the doctor said you're not you're not gonna be playing baseball for a while. 

So that that ship sailed I through my mom and dad through my belief in God and and and that my brothers I powered through fought on Went to a good college and university then went to Harvard for my master's then went to Seton Hall Law School and I wasn't a nerdy student guy right But then I realized I'm not gonna make a living playing ball I better find another way changed my life forever And my poor parents I mean they explained to me what they went through, and my brothers told me they were just torn you know

Leo Judkins: Yeah.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): thankfully everything worked out

Leo Judkins: Unbelievable story. That must be so hard, right? As family sitting there not being able to do anything. And I know your father meant a lot to you. He sadly passed away last year. You called [00:19:00] him every morning. what were some of the things that, you know, you would talk about? What were perhaps some of the things that you would get out of those conversations that you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): so my dad played professional baseball not in the majors He played for the double a Philadelphia Phillies after college he went to Fordham University He was a catcher He was a good ball player And because of his catching he always had problems with his knees later in life But parents both from Italy both off the boat okay

At a very young age during the war wanted their son to be a lawyer my dad graduated from college to university and then went on for his master's then got into teaching my grandparents God rest their souls William j Pascrell Sr And Raffi Pascrell my grandma 

Not that they weren't proud of him but they were really disappointed to didn't become a lawyer I felt that [00:20:00] pressure even though my dad never put that pressure on me, I felt like maybe there's some way I could make them happy sure enough they were still alive when I became a lawyer 

My dad through inspiration and example motivated me not through being didactic or lecturing or preaching He led by example Billy I'm disappointed you did this Maybe there's another way 

Things like that You know we were scared to death of my dad not because it was gonna be a physical thing dad wasn't really physical with us and most of my friend's parents were very physical with the wooden spoon and stuff like that on the butt but he he was just a great man And although he was very educated and very smart he didn't wear it on his sleeve He didn't talk down to people He connected with people 

He loved bonding with people [00:21:00] a congressman for four years He has to go on what's called CODEL a Congressional trip abroad which is paid for by the Congress six Democrats six Republicans went to Israel and my dad said Billy would you like to come It was essentially one of my first trips abroad 

So I went with him to Israel had to pay my own way I was an adult So we stayed at the King David Hotel And at the time as there is now there's always strife there and war So we had significant protection to save money 

My dad said don't get your own hotel room We'll get a two beds Stay with me And I remember after the first day of activities back to the room at around five, six o'clock there's a ball game on back in America the Yankees 

And we're both Yankee fans So that said Billy lets you know we got [00:22:00] beers in the fridge here let's have a beer We'll watch a game for a little bit we're watching the game and the Yankees are doing well he says we gotta go out tonight what do you mean goes I don't want to go to this dinner It's a formal dinner whatever And it'll be okay but take this ice bucket Walk outside the room and go to the end of the hallway and go get some ice I said dad what's going on said well you know there's two special agents outside with long guns that are there to protect us 

They're not gonna let us go wander 

So this is what you're gonna do You're gonna go to the end of the hallway they're gonna follow you I'm gonna open the door as they have their backs to the door and they're following you I'm gonna sneak down the staircase cause if I take the elevator they'll hear it we were on like the 20 something floor

I said dad, hold on, Then what am I gonna do?

He goes you figure it out You find a way [00:23:00] to get out of here. 

He goes all the way down to the bottom Goes out to the push through door outside not into the lobby because there's security in the lobby not it's like he's almost a fugitive right 

So they came down the hallway I got the ice and I was smiling and they started walking down the hallway And the further they got as you know in most hotels at each end of the hallway there are staircases I was like he went down that staircase I put the ice bucket down I gently opened the door and I ran down the staircase 

I saw dad outside He's like you did it I knew you would do it So now those security guards are wondering what the hell happened to him 

So my dad and I went out on the town we had never been to Israel before We're wandering the streets of Jerusalem getting a coffee We had a little bite to eat And my [00:24:00] dad says to me, you can have a smoke son I'm gonna I'm gonna just check these little joints out here 

So I have a smoke And I saw him wander into this one I don't know if it was a pub or a café whatever it was I walk into the place and he's playing dominoes with total strangers and he's having the time of his life He's drinking whatever the little shot of whiskey and we spent a few hours there but it's moments like that we'd never forget 

My dad stayed friendly with those guys till the day he died.

 But you know his we spoke every single morning If I was travelling 6:00 AM Eastern time right New York time if I was travelling and he called me and I didn't pick up he would just keep calling He wouldn't leave a phone Until I picked up it became hard after he passed

Leo Judkins: Yeah.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): having that connection [00:25:00] But you know I grieved really hard for about a month and a half two months and then I realized like we're all gonna die someday It's natural It's the part of life it's the cycle of life I just at peace with myself I mean there's time I miss him every day But I think because of what happened to me when I was in fourth grade with Tommy Blackburn I think I handled grief a little better this time And so you know my closing comments at his funeral before 2000 people in the church and 5,000 outside on jumbotron screens watching, and his funeral was broadcast live on CBS news which was a great tribute

Leo Judkins: Maybe four.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): humble man I said to everybody as I was done with my eulogy it was about 10 minutes I said please [00:26:00] pardon me for a moment I need to talk to dad And I said dad it's not goodbye I'll talk to you in the morning And like place went crazy

Leo Judkins: Oh my God.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): he was my best friend period Full stop And I lost my best friend I'm trying to find my next best friend and I think it's my son

Leo Judkins: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. How, how do you feel now, bill? Are you, are you lonely now that you don't have those conversations any more in the morning?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): No I'm not lonely because everyone in my life my family and friends and business partners Gave me room gave me respect but didn't abandon me like they like I've also learned because of this death 

That when somebody loses a very significant other you know mother father brother sister wife husband you gotta stay connected they won't ask for it, They need it I needed it [00:27:00] so I don't feel lonely at all like I was telling you before we started filming I was at my beach house My dad could never afford a beach house 

He always wanted one and he could never afford to rent a beach house of his bosses in life had a beach house and he would give it to my dad for a week So we were able to go have a vacation at the Jersey Shore But when I bought this house five years ago during COVID my 

Leo Judkins: dad 

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): was so proud to come down there go on the roof have a beer see the ocean We're right on the beach my dad doesn't have any idea what I paid for it cause you know I mean I just I wasn't gonna tell him either but we enjoyed it for four years together And he had the experience 

So we have a bedroom in the house that's dedicated to my mom and dad My mom still comes we have all this stuff up in the room It's the it's the Bill Pascrell Jr Room sort of but you know I walk into that room sometimes there's stuff in [00:28:00] there that brings back great memories Like I have a lot of stuff on the walls here from him, I don't feel lonely I feel blessed

Leo Judkins: At his funeral. Funeral, you said something, about, that's now up to us to have the courage to follow in his, in his example. Right. I love that, especially that word, courage. So what does that, what does that mean for you, and how does that show up for you?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): he was a teacher Then he worked for a mayor as his policy director Then he started running for office state legislature Chairman of the party Mayor for eight years of my hometown and then Congress for 30 years What it says to me is like his example of sacrifice and public service for others know most people have struggles in life that they're not always able to overcome so is it really all is life all about just grabbing [00:29:00] and making as much as you can 

I don't think that's what life's about but I'm not preaching to anyone I just think his example was giving back public service helping others and so we're in the process of forming the Bill Pascrell Junior Public Service Institute we're using his campaign contributions which my brothers and I could have easily pocketed in our money had 1.5 million in a bank we're starting an institute to teach younger folks and inspire them to get into public service 

We need young people to want to get involved in government and politics because we've had some challenges particularly in my country with the way the country's been divided We need people to bring people together that building bridges et cetera So that's what I mean by that

Leo Judkins: I think it also goes to one of these quotes that I read from also your dad, right? That's said that titles come and [00:30:00] go and in the end they don't matter, what matters, how we treat each other. I think that's so true. So, so in treating each other with respect and courtesy and, you know, and being able to disagree with each other, you've gone through so many challenges with the world. It must have felt like the world was against you, you know? and you were fighting that fight, like how it must have been difficult to always show up with respect and courtesy and perhaps humility and all of that.

Right? So how, how has that been for you?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): I didn't do anything great it was in my bone marrow what dad taught us If it just became it was just natural It wasn't like I did anything special I don't think it's special To respect each other 

I don't think it's special to be able to disagree but do it in you know in a respectful harmonious way without being adversarial I'll tell you one thing which is remarkable to this day I [00:31:00] cannot tell you how many people I've bumped into since dad's passed that I didn't know the guy putting in a sprinkler system in my house sends his workers out I'm making my way home and my wife says you won't believe this guy Willie started crying 

He said your last name is Pascrell Are you related to Congressman Pascrell He said I had a real challenge getting my green card and I went to go see Congressman Pascrell I thought he'd never see me. Not only did he see me he didn't he said talk to me over the phone come to my office I had an espresso with him 

My dad always had the espresso machine cause he is Italian said he got me my green card I would've been de you know deported or whatever and it's stories like that 

But the other thing is I told you in Lisbon my first gaming client was Donald Trump and his three casinos in Atlantic City I don't hate Donald Trump and I have lots of friends who are Republicans I am a Democrat but I'm not a left-wing Democrat [00:32:00] I'm a moderate Democrat My dad did despise Donald Trump did not like him 

A lot of people where I live here where he was congressman are really conservatives A lot of Italian Americans they would vote for dad but they were also big supporters of Trump And I could never figure out how you could vote for Trump and vote for my dad but they did that was out of respect cause they knew that guy was gonna fight for them for what their needs were both locally and nationally 

And so what it means to me is you gotta treat everybody as you climb up the ladder of life and start to succeed You have to treat everybody with respect and courtesy So whether it's the waiter or waitress or the porter in your hotel or the guy that parks your car or the garbage man Treat them with respect 

The [00:33:00] other thing is it makes for a more harmonious environment for everybody because you know in life there's been many examples of this in revolutions when those who are underprivileged feel disrespected forget about being poor but being poor and disrespected that's when they rise up and that's when chaos gets created So there's also in addition to the moral proposition there's also a practical reason for it For a more harmonious community

Leo Judkins: I want to kind of go back to that moment in 2010 how you lost all of your clients, which was a major sacrifice, a huge financial burden.

Tell us a little bit more about that whole process. the defeats that you had and how you dealt with that emotionally as you, as you were going through those, those periods.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): I represented all the

casinos in Atlantic City Connecticut and their motherships in [00:34:00] Vegas and I would go to all those three locations frequently I never talked to any of them about online gaming ever Never brought up never mentioned I don't even think they really knew what it was Joe Brennan's call to bring me in to help with sports betting, and online gaming was a remarkable start 

And that was in November 2009 And then he introduced me to Isai Scheinberg the founder of Poker Stars I didn't get the courtesy of any of those casino moguls calling me and talking it through when they found out I was onboarding poker stars to bring iGaming to America they just fired me summarily one by one it was quite a bit of money 

And what I also explained to you Leo and you're great You do your homework I'm not sure if I could ever do what you do but you do it in a way with empathy and compassion which I respect and [00:35:00] appreciate I lost them all and I really thought that I was gonna lose my job But Isai Scheinberg said to me no Bill I need you focused on the value proposition of bringing iGaming I don't need you focused on how you're gonna pay your mortgage so Isai took care of me and I hit big when I got the bill signed and we launched that was the proposition I gave him Remember I told you Leo he was spending $40 million a year in lobbyists in Washington to get a bill passed in Congress 

And I said to him Isai I found out one of the sponsor of your bill is my father He wouldn't know what iGaming is if it hit him over the head I mean what He goes yeah your dad's well respected though We thought I said yeah I get it He always wants to help but you're never gonna get a bill passed in Congress, Congress doesn't regulate gaming What do you do Like [00:36:00] these people are taking your money You've been doing it year over year You haven't even gotten a committee hearing I said give me 10 of that money one time not annually one time 10 of $40 million and I'll get this done in two years And we did And I've been more than made whole 

Yeah, It was a struggle for a bit because my partners were nervous about losing these clients And where are they gonna go They're all back They're all back You know we launched we got the bill passed in 20 13 in February We launched November 2013 the first iGaming platforms it's been extremely successful unfortunately we've only been able to get it done in seven other states and hopefully we'll scale that better 

There's's a lot of reasons for that but you know that two years of struggle was worth every single sacrifice made me better [00:37:00] it gave me some, I don't know about international but definitely national recognition and it put me at a different level And really I'm one of the few lobbyists in the country that represents clients across the globe in matters like this Getting past a repealed bringing online gaming exchange wagering I got that done recently Fixed odds horse racing which it was never done in America 

And we got it done in three states Right now we're about to get our fourth And then also bringing lottery courier Those are all new And those are disruptors right Because people get get upset about those things that have their own you know platform They don't want anybody touching I go back and thank Joe Brennan for I I mean if I hadn't met Joe I would've just been a casino lobbyist Yeah Making a decent living but not anything of consequence

Leo Judkins: in that two year [00:38:00] period, were there any moments where you really doubted if you had made the right decisions, where you felt. This is just not gonna work. I'm, I, I, you know, this is all gonna go wrong.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): Every day just give you a couple quick ones Leo I was in Las Vegas with Joe Brennan and when I would go there we would go meet with the sports books to educate me on on real I mean I was always a bit of a sport better but really didn't know much about it cause none of the casinos were really able to do it other than Nevada

So we went out to Red Rock to a casino just outside of Vegas about you know 45-minute ride half hour ride Joe Brennan says to me as we're walking through the hallway he's not a drinker or a smoker he said bill when you go outside to have a cigarette I'm coming with you, I go why bill we're being followed he believed that both he and I were in harm's ray with the NFL cause they were a thousand percent against sports betting expansion [00:39:00] they were really trying to shut this down And so my dad used to K bits and say to me son When you order soup in a restaurant make sure somebody else tastes it first and don't start your car in the morning Do remote start Thanks dad

Leo Judkins: Unbelievable. kind of closing off. Uh, there's so much more I wanted to discuss, but, uh, it's, it's been really great talking to you. I, I, I wanna talk a little bit more about, going back 2009, 2010, like with this kind of retrospective view and knowing everything you know now, the good and the bad and all the changes and where the industry has gone, is there anything you would've done differently back then?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): is gonna sound a bit maybe not what you're looking for but it's the truth I think I could have treated my adversaries the NFL all their lobbyists the brick and mortar casinos that were against us, I think I could have treated them [00:40:00] more as a happy warrior than as an angry gladiator I felt It was me versus the world So I had to be really tough And had I knew the outcome I might have been more gentlemanly along the way but I was very angry at the way I was being treated disrespected But that doesn't give me the privilege to return the favour And that that's the one regret I have That's more of a sleep at night type of thing It's not like well if I had done things differently I would've been more successful cause I'm very happy with where I'm at

Leo Judkins: I actually love that answer because so, so, tell me a little bit more about that. Why, why is that important to you? Why not be the angry man who is crushed by, the big ones? Why instead be the, the gentleman who just goes about his day 

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): I'll take it to my back to my dad

I ran many of dad's campaigns it was hard he was in some very [00:41:00] very hard races He always won when my dad ran for reelection for Mayor Patterson he was mayor He was not supposed to win a lot of the entrenched powers were against him and he won But when he ran for reelection he had a very a couple but one very obnoxious opponent who was going at my dad in a despicable way I'm running the campaign and I said dad do you know how much dirt we have on this guy Do you know what we can do I'm happy to get it And my father said something to me, I had never heard out of his mouth He said bill we're not doing that because after we win I have to govern and I have to govern everybody and if I have to win by ruining somebody's life Now he was tough in a campaign but what I wanted him to do he was not willing to do That Says a lot about the character of a human being and that's why I feel the way I do where I could have maybe been [00:42:00] more of a happy warrior than an angry gladiator

Leo Judkins: it. I think it's such a good advice, especially in our industry, which is small, you know, it's a big, like monetary wise, it's a big industry, but in terms of people, we always work with the same people One day, they're our competitors. The next day they're our colleagues, you know, my very last question, bill, for anybody listening here. So typically, C-level execs, VPs, directors, typically in iGaming. You've met so many people along the way. What is like, if you would look at a leadership quality that you see in some of the most successful.

People in that segment of the industry that is maybe unseen or people don't really talk about enough, what? What would that be for you?

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): this is a a very important question I'm gonna be in Miami as I told you for that Leader Summit talking about this very topic [00:43:00] I don't think most people in this industry fully appreciate the importance of people.

They understand the importance of their licence of money of success of technology of AI but not of people, Okay?

What do I mean by that There's a gentleman I met six years ago in Barcelona from Australia He's the CEO of a public company in our industry and I was speaking One-year anniversary of the repeal of PASPA and sports betting growing in America on a panel the room was packed and I was really at my heyday got online gaming done now sports betting done And I'm like you know I'm doing my celebratory dance as we say I come off the stage and he comes up to me says Hey mate my name's Todd Buckingham I'm the CEO of bet makers as he's chatting to me he says I flew here not to come to this conference I flew here to meet you Several people told me [00:44:00] I had to meet you Bet Makers is a public company traded on the Ozzy NASDAQ the sx he founded the company and his family him and his mom and some other relatives grown it into a nice organization 

But he said to me a few years later bill this isn't about the money this is about the challenge and how we work together and make like I've bonded with this guy He flew flew me to Australia a year later for his 50th birthday right on their dime Got now I've been to Australia about a half dozen times He has a gift Because he inspires he doesn't lecture he motivates he doesn't treat everybody like candy canes right He he puts pressure but he motivates and he inspires and he leads by example That's what this industry needs more of

Leo Judkins: Bill, thank you so much for your time and [00:45:00] all your stories. Really, uh, enjoyed talking to you so much. It has been a, a fantastic episode. Thank you.

Bill Pascrell, III (BP3): Thank you, It's a privilege and a pleasure I'm so happy I did it