Podcast Episode 8: Redefining Leadership: Lex Scott on Leading with Vulnerability

[00:00:00] the only currency we have is time. When you realise that, your investment isn't matching up to what you can get out of it. I think that you have to cut the cord.

[00:00:08] Embracing, impermanence in everything, your work, friends, family, it's about embracing that constant change, nothing lasting forever, embracing that path leading to success. And I think peace, which is, I think is really what we're all looking for.

[00:00:23] I've hired a coach. I've started unpicking years of bad habits realigning my actions with my priorities.

[00:00:30] Humans are not, made. to be islands. we're social creatures. And why try and do this yourself when there's so many other people out there that are either on the same journey or behind you, or just ahead of you that you can support each other and learn from each other along the way.

[00:00:48] Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry. I'm your host, Leo Judkins and as an ex iGaming Director turned Performance Coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Entain, bet365, Flutter and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance.

[00:01:13] In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same.

[00:01:18] So with that being said, let's dive in.

[00:01:21] Lex, welcome to the iGaming Leader. Super excited to have you here on the podcast, man. Welcome.

[00:01:28] Great to be here.

[00:01:29] I wanted to dive straight in with a question about authenticity and openness. I know you are really big on that when it comes to leadership. Can you tell me a little bit more about why that's so important to you and maybe even share a defining moment in your career where you had to choose between being authentic and.

[00:01:48] And conforming with expectations.

[00:01:51] Yeah, sure. So I think it goes back to growing up as a kid and I was very much a person who was very inauthentic. So I was constantly donning different personalities, different traits different characters, if you like, just to get by, just to, find some sense of, purpose or position or validation.

[00:02:15] And I think that I lived that life for so long that really end up having quite a deep separation between who you truly are and who you're projecting to the rest of the world. So, I spent most of my time growing up. To manage my own mental health, I was struggling on and off with we did a lot of moving around as kids and, that kind of fear of change and fear of any sort of, movement away from what would become my new normal was something I really struggled with.

[00:02:46] So I used to create characters. Lex in itself was a character that I created, you know, everyone back at my first secondary school would have, known me as Alex and it was very much a mask that I'd put on every day in order to in order to get through the day, in order to make friends feel like I was liked. And I think, gradually over time, I just realized that. There was this bigger and bigger divide between who I was, inside and who I was projecting myself to be. And I think everyone comes to this point at some stage in their life, whatever happens to be, the stimulus for causing the kind of confrontation that you have between those two things. And it was really important for me to eventually reconcile those two parts of myself and establish what was the new me.

[00:03:35] Um, and, It's very much something that I've tried to take into my leadership style. I am a very warts and all a person. And I think that's been, it's very subjective, right?

[00:03:46] To whether that's a good or a bad thing for many people, often they don't always hear what they want to hear. And I don't always play um, by, you know, the more conventional rules of corporate life, I guess. but it's been really important to me just to be true to myself and to the people that I'm working with, because I don't really want to do anything different.

[00:04:08] No, I love that. And I, like from just knowing you that, that's what I love most about you. This is just who you're going to get. This is Lex, right? And you take, you leave it. I want to kind of dive back into that next. One of the things that you said there, what did you have a kind of a pivotal moment or something where you thought this kind of this character that I'm putting on is just not who I want to be.

[00:04:29] And, or did it happen over time? Can you tell me a little bit more about that about when you decided to make that change and how that showed up?

[00:04:35] Yeah, I

[00:04:36] think anybody that knows me personally will know that, it's not just, it's not just one incident, one mistake that that's resulted in that conclusion that I've come to it's very much been death by a thousand cuts in many ways. I'm not the quickest learner when it comes to when it comes to these things, and I think I realized that I was not only hurting myself, but I was hurting people around me or as being detrimental is probably a better, a better way of putting it.

[00:05:04] in being inauthentic. I was actually and pretending to be something that I wasn't what I thought people wanted me to be. I was actually pushing them away. Uh, and so was a combination of things really over time that the real pinnacle was, was becoming a stepdad and becoming a father for the first time. Like so many things in my life I've done a complete crash course, four years ago. I was single, living in a two bed flat in London with a former university and rugby teammate from from Lincoln. And four years later, I'm living up in the Wirral with two stepkids aged nine and 14 and two kids under two. And I think that's why I draw a lot of parallels between leadership and in, in the corporate world and parenting. It really forces you to hold the mirror up. Or in some cases when you're, refusing to hold the mirror up, it will force you in front of the mirror.

[00:06:00] And I Think that sometimes, you have to face that and embrace it, embrace the suck. And and just acknowledge that there's, there's certain things that, you're falling way short on for yourself and for other people. I think when you have kids or a team, it magnifies it tenfold because you suddenly realize that you're responsible for other people

[00:06:23] and that the, perhaps the coping mechanisms that you used previously that had been effective for you as an individual, no longer served you as part of a larger collective.

[00:06:34] Yeah. Love that man. So Lex you talk about mental health and fatherhood really significantly having an influence on your leadership journey. So tell me a little bit more about that. Like, how has that shaped your leadership approach and what changes have you made as a result of, your experiences with mental health and fatherhood?

[00:06:52] I think on all fronts, it's it's encouraged me to be more patient. I think patience is a is a really difficult trait to have, especially anyone who's highly ambitious or or driven you, you want everything straight away. You don't want to wait and so often, you're pushing so hard to succeed, to progress that you really don't appreciate or take the time to enjoy the journey and to, and and to also accept that like people. People can't all be running at the same pace as you are. So I think patience and empathy, they're the two that have really have really come through for me from both of those.

[00:07:39] I think, historically, which is quite strange for someone who struggled with mental health over time is that I was, I had a degree of, intolerance to it or aversion to it. I think that I almost felt like because of how it had followed me around growing up and through my adult life, how it also surrounded me with with my family. And to an extent friends that it almost felt like something that if I paid it too much time and attention, that it would come back to me almost like a, like a disease that I, would would return if I if I let it. So I think that, trying to take the time to understand what's going what people are receptive to in terms of leadership, I think encouraging people to also take some personal responsibility for themselves. That's something that I wish that I'd had as as a kid. And as a young adult, someone teaching me how to, conduct the self audit and look at myself holistically and, take measured approach to what I was doing. I've been a, I've been a stop, start sprinter my entire life and trying to encourage people to become more of a distance runner. And I guess adapt a more sustainable approach to both being a team member and also a leader. That's really something that, I wish I'd had 10, 15 years ago.

[00:09:10] It's also shaped you though, right? And it shapes you to who you've become today.

[00:09:14] You're passionate about encouraging more authenticity and openness in, especially in C levels, right? And that's something that I've also seen is it's quite hard for people in leadership positions sometimes. What do you think holds leaders back from being maybe more vulnerable and how can they shift that mindset?

[00:09:30] What's something that they could do to change that approach?

[00:09:32] Around leadership that you have to be invincible on that. You have to. get every decision right. And I think that embracing mistakes being open and honest about mistakes that you might have made in real time as well as in retrospect.

[00:09:50] I think that's really important. I think not enough people do that. Take account for things at the time it's all well and good telling people a mistake you made in retrospect that you've since made good and gone on to great success. But to take ownership of something at the time, I think takes real courage and real vulnerability. I think really just a case of. Of spending more time with your team, getting to know people naturally vulnerability, an openness comes about from shared experiences and creating relationships, on, on a personal level with people. So if you aren't doing that, I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to be to show your more human side with your team. very easy for me to say and very difficult in this current time, this current climate where we've never been busier. We've never been more overstimulated or accessible to people. And I think that, all of those things make it really difficult to prioritize the things that actually might have a really high ROI from you, but might require a lot You to move out of your comfort zone.

[00:10:57] I think it's a really interesting, it's a really interesting mentality around high achievers as well that, they think that they need to keep pushing and they need to set an example they need to, create this halo of success around themselves. And actually that's not what a team are looking for at all.

[00:11:14] They're not looking for somebody that's perfect. They're looking for somebody that is going, that, that they can get behind and that they can, turn up to work looking forward to. representing and and contributing towards that collective success. I think that's what people do. Some of the best leaders that I've been around have they inspire the team around them to, to work for each other and for that person. And it's really hard to do that. If you don't know, if you don't know

[00:11:41] your leader,

[00:11:42] yeah, leaders are people who you want to follow, right? And I think that's exactly what you described there. I love that.

[00:11:48] You've identified some key people as your mentors, your soul food, your anchors, and your pivots. So tell us a little bit more about a time where you relied on a support network and what did you learn about leadership and vulnerability from those situations? Yeah.

[00:12:08] Yeah.

[00:12:14] to have the sort of people around me that I do, both professionally and personally. I think to an extent I've created a lot of that luck myself. I do crave personal collection and that, that means that I have a lot of people pulling for me and I've got a lot of people that are willing to help me out and, it goes both ways.

[00:12:33] I like to think that I can provide that to the people in my support network as well. Now, professionally, I have people like Mark Willard, who was, instrumental to me. I met him at university back in 2009. We were playing rugby together. We ended up running the rugby club together. It was our first, It was our first kind of foray into business together to an extent because we ran it like a commercial enterprise. We drove the membership to whole new levels that had never reached before. Retention, like we, we genuinely ran that sports society as a business.

[00:13:11] And we looked at all of the key metrics, fundraising, revenue, performance on the pitch, off the pitch. And we were all about, we were all about having a kind of shared. A shared vision and message of legacy and things like that are, that are always the sort of things that are super important to you you're 21 and your only priorities is playing rugby and going out. he was tremendously important to me because, we started running club nights together in our university city. We continued working together for three or four years after he left university. I was kept behind for for a further year due to due to my own, uh, with my course. And I think what was so valuable to me is that he he always saw the best in me. He always tried to push me to be more, to be better, to fulfill my potential, at least the potential that he saw in me way before I saw in myself.

[00:14:06] Eventually he ended up hiring me at the more shine, which is a big or was a big media production. Company. Uh, they own brands like deal or no deal and Peaky Blinders and MasterChef and Black Mirror. And it was, I think it was the first time that I really realized how important it was to have someone fight in your corner because all of a sudden I was representing these huge franchises and I loved what I was selling.

[00:14:36] I think that was the difference. You know, I'd kind of bounced around different roles in the lead up to that. And. Yeah. It was only when I landed at Endemol that I truly understood what it was to love what you do and to and to really find meaning and purpose in in your day to day. And, Mark giving me that opportunity, I'd had no experience in TV or media.

[00:15:00] I had no experience in, in, in what their specific operation was, which was licensing. The intellectual property of those TV shows into gaming and to gambling, and he gave me a chance. And I think it was the start of me really starting to build confidence and understand what what leadership looked like.

[00:15:21] Now I'm not going to say that our dynamic was for everyone. It was a steep learning curve. And, I think that a lot of people might struggle under, the type of mentor relationship that we had, but for us it worked really well.

[00:15:35] And I think that's again, the sign of a great supporter or a great leader. really much of the same. It's how that person can engage you and really elevate you or encourage you to elevate yourself. Yeah, I mean, I owe a huge amount to Mark. I know he also owes a huge amount to me.

[00:15:55] His bonuses over the years have have have paid for his his lifestyle. And and I like to think I've contributed a significant amount to that. So I know that I've repaid that. And that's also a really important part of any support network is that it's a mutual. It's a mutual relationship, you give and you take equally.

[00:16:15] I think that's super important. Always be open to adding to that support network. I think anything that you ever do, there are chapters in your life and that support network is not always scalable. There are people that are going to be around for the entire book and there's people that are going to be around for, just certain chapters and that is fine.

[00:16:34] I think embracing, impermanence in everything, whether it's your work, friends, family, it's so important. And I think it's about embracing that constant change, state of change, nothing lasting forever, embracing that path leading to success. And I think peace, which is, I think is really what we're all looking for. So I think, yeah, I've been so incredibly lucky. I, I could do a full Oscars. speech on all the people that I'm grateful to. I think the most amazing thing about the iGaming industry in particular is it is so welcoming. and it's so unique I think, in its culture and its, Attitude to it loves bringing new people in and it's such an interesting time for the industry because as you've touched on with some of your other podcasts, like it's still relatively immature in the grand scheme of things.

[00:17:30] And it's still in many respects, finding its feet, but it's also got this huge amount of revenue involved with it. This huge amount of regulation it's all of a sudden gone to like really high stakes game,

[00:17:41] which makes it super exciting as well to be involved. I absolutely love that. I have this kind of this hybrid role that allows me to, kind of jack of all trades master or nothing, but I think being able to be involved at least peripherally from a third party brand perspective and in both the iGaming space and then also in the casual gaming space, it's just been the most incredible thing to be a part of when technology and its advancements, innovation, it's just, I feel like it's, I couldn't be in a more exciting space.

[00:18:16] Quick break here. If you're a head of director, VP or executive in iGaming who's successful at work, but is finding it hard to achieve balance in life and switch off from work, then I've got something that's going to help.

[00:18:30] On the 3rd of February, we are launching the iGaming Leader Reset. A six week coaching program in which I will personally work with 15 iGaming leaders to build habits for sustainable high performance. All in just 20 minutes a day. It's limited to only 15 leaders

[00:18:50] so if that's something that you want to know a little bit more about, head over to iGamingLeader.com and I hope to see you there. Now let's get back to our conversation.

[00:18:58] One of the things that we all know is true in iGaming is that there's an immense pressure to deliver results quickly, right? So how do you balance that kind of urgency with, especially in your, area, it's all about relationship building, right? And so how do you balance that sense of urgency with perhaps more long term relationship and long term vision?

[00:19:22] Yeah, that's a great question. I think that's something that I've been really working on more recently since I started ITV. So ITV is a it's a, it's a publicly traded company. It has shareholders that, we have to keep happy, to an extent you're operating year to year. you also have to, you have to have medium and long term strategies and goals, you know, in order for you to, breach that, year by year mindset and and be at the forefront of, really exciting in the industry.

[00:19:51] So, That's something that my SVP Steve Watling has been great for me. I am somebody who, my, my pipeline is, pretty hectic. And I think just, taking the time, not just as a leader on an individual basis, but also understanding, the people above you, the people below you, like what is important to them?

[00:20:10] what is important to our customers? You know, What do people want to see? I've done enough deals that have, that I've thought, that were great decisions in the here and now, which have further down the line prove to be perhaps the, the wrong choice.

[00:20:27] And I think there's also a level of pragmatism that has to come with this stuff that hindsight is is a great thing. But, I think that's what I admire about, what I admire about leaders. The ones that I have on the pedestal are the ones that are able to make decisions quickly and that are able to make the majority of them good ones, right?

[00:20:48] I think that speed of decision making is particularly in gaming and gambling is absolutely key because everything's moving at a million miles an hour. And being able to make those those snap decisions, it's absolutely key. It's invaluable because you just have to look at the most kind of successful companies in the space.

[00:21:07] They're also the most disruptive, right?

[00:21:09] You think of people like a Nick Robinson, and someone who's like a true disruptor, and what I love about what Nick's managed to do with big time gaming. Is create a intellectual property out of Megaways, a mechanic that, he's patented and he's licensed across the industry. I think things like that, being able to pivot quickly. that's the sort of thing that I, I have a huge amount of respect for. and I tried to replicate, I tried to replicate in my own in my own leadership. I'm not, don't always get it right. Because I'm also very OCD and I do have a tendency to overanalyze, but I think making the best thing you could do is make a quick decision. The second best thing is making. No decision on the and the worst thing you can do is making a slow decision. So that's something I'm trying to, I'm really trying to ingrain in myself because at times I have been a little the slow side again, just because perhaps I don't have to, I haven't had the confidence to to take that big step

[00:22:12] So talking about making quick decisions, what are some of the things that you do when you don't have all of the information yet? You still want to make a quick decision. What do you do to, get through that discomfort of not knowing it all yet, but still, uh, still wanting to make that decision.

[00:22:27] I think it's about creating a culture where mistakes and failures are okay, and that you embrace them and learn from them. So I don't think I don't think it's necessarily about getting it right every time. I saw a podcast recently, it was saying that, the big advantage, the big competitive advantage is speed. And that in the time that you've taken to make one decision, I've already made three mistakes and come up with a better process for for addressing the original problem. So I think, I think that, not having any fear of failure, which is so difficult, right? In this modern world we live in. The blame culture lack of empathy or patience, social media has really taken it to whole new levels. You only have to look at the hate that people get, when they post something that they perceive as being positive. That's what hater mentality is so ingrained in our culture that fear of failure can almost stop you in your tracks.

[00:23:24] And I think that, there's some great books out there like black box thinking by Matthew side, um, where it talks about, it refers to the black box in aviation, which is, a device that's used to analyze accidents. And it symbolizes a culture of learning from mistakes and failures and improving processes on the basis of those failures.

[00:23:43] So it's all about building, building that confidence. I think it's something that comes with age as

[00:23:50] well as experience. I used to care a lot more what people thought. And I think letting go of that was a really important part of growing as a, as a leader.

[00:24:00] I think that's so true, Lex. You know, It is about like almost that fear of judgment for many people, right? And therefore not, then not taking decisions. And then you end up with mediocre products and mediocre everything instead of uh, yeah, embracing it, embracing the discomfort and actually making decisions and then learning from those failures and adopting as you, as you go along. Talking about quick decisions, you, I know this year you were in a C level position for 48 hours and made a quick decision there after what probably wasn't a quick decision, but you made a decision there to to leave. That must've been incredibly difficult. So can you talk us through what was going through your mind in those two days and what ultimately led you to step away?

[00:24:42] Yeah. So 2024 has been a really big year of change, right. for me as a, as a professional, as a person, it started with leaving my role of eight years at Banerjee where I was commercial director. I was very comfortable there, but there was some restructuring and there was an opportunity to take voluntary redundancy. and, you know, after eight years in the same role, it felt like a change was necessary. I've been redoing my house uh, which has been a slog in itself. It was a real fixer upper and that, that redundancy package, it just made sense for me at the time. I thought it was time to embrace the change explore, what else is out there. And so I went to market I had two opportunities, one, which was a very safe play in in IP licensing. Was super attracted to it because the management team. I had a huge amount of respect for I've worked with them on multiple different occasions, indirectly via Banerjee. And and then this complete left field approach from an iGaming company came in and it was an opportunity for me to take on my first C level role. It was a kind of dual CCO, CEO position. And. I was super bought in to what they were trying to achieve. And had been a long time admirer of the company. So it was a no brainer for me to take this step. I'd already made the big breakaway from my from my safe spot of a banner J. So why not go for. And, unfortunately, it just didn't, it didn't transpire to be, I had thought or hoped it would be, and that would became very apparent to me very quickly. And I was, you know what, I was super proud. I put a lot of preparation into into going into that role. I'd obviously told my friends and family that I was going to be

[00:26:37] taking on that role. And there was a huge amount of pride at stake going into this. And as soon as I realized it wasn't a right fit, I made a very quick decision to to exit.

[00:26:51] And I think that was something I'm, I'm hugely proud of. It was,

[00:26:55] you know, the me of, five years ago would have, you know, would have hung in there, would have refused to take a knee and would have tried to make it work. And I think that, again, time, age, parenthood, it's given me a perspective that really the only currency we have is time.

[00:27:16] And the only and perhaps as a secondary energy. And so when you realise that, your investment isn't matching up to what you can get out of it. I think that you have to cut the cord. And that's something that can be quite difficult, right? So many people, they teach this kind of toxic culture of don't quit, don't walk away, never give up. And sometimes, it's actually a completely like a diminishing return that you're, you're forcing yourself to endure and, you're hanging in there from a point of pride,

[00:27:52] right?

[00:27:52] It was not something that I was over enamored with admitting to people that this big C level position that I'd done, that I'd I'd signed up for the PR that had been planned and, and everything that came with it, the introduction to the team to, to have to call that, to feel like I had to call that two days in it was, it was intense, but it was not something that I regretted for an instant.

[00:28:16] And I think, again, without trying to sound too basic, I really have bought into the green lights mentality by Matthew McConaughey. And I do sound very basic picking out a Hollywood A lister as my North star. But think that, his book that came out a couple of years ago, it really resonated with me. Um, it might be because I listened to it on Audible and his voice is just incredible. You know, It teaches you about, the whole kind of premise of life being full of green lights and red lights, orange lights essentially, your failure is becoming your failure starting off as red lights, but in the rearview mirror of life becoming green lights.

[00:28:54] Because, ultimately, you know, you can use that, you can learn from it. To move on and grow do something better. And I think that's, that gives you a sense of perspective when bad things are happening or when you're going through tough times that it won't always last and that it might, and that it might turn out, for the best.

[00:29:12] That was what got me through. And, lo and behold, the opportunity to work with the team at ITV. As I said, you know, I really buy into leaders and that's what I've always done is, it's something that's crucial to me. I can't work for someone I don't understand, or I don't think I can build a relationship with. And yeah, the opportunity to work with You're in van, Damir and Steve. What lane I T V was, it was absolute no brainer for me. I was, you know, I'm tremendously grateful that I had the opportunity. I didn't have that much time out of work and and to, to be able to to move to, you Such a, such an awesome company and representing brands like Hell's Kitchen and Love Island and Schitt's Creek and The Voice. Again, I just, I love being able to sell things I really believe in

[00:30:01] and, uh, and I personally love. Ultimately that red light, it, it became a very big green light for me.

[00:30:07] Love it Lex, because your ego could have been in the way there as well, right? Very easily. You were saying that's the first time I've got this opportunity for a C level position. Did you struggle with that at all? With that ego part of it?

[00:30:20] Yeah, I guess to an extent I did. Yeah. I like to try and make light of anything and that, that's happening in my life at the time. It's generally how I've managed and coped with things. So, you know, even With my, my, my partner, Katie she's a a Scouser and her support and her, her, dark humor, it's been a real a real saving grace for me with that because, there's there's nothing like Merseyside mentality you know, to always. bring you down a peg or two to make light of dark situations and just tell it like it is as

[00:30:58] well. that's, they're the sorts of things that have been, really important to me. You talk about support network again, people like Mark were, incredible for me during that time, and it also pushed me to start looking at doing things on my own.

[00:31:12] So. I'd always loved the comfort blanket of of, corporate life and everything that came with it and how well it shielded me and the security. And it pushed me to be, to do things that made me feel uncomfortable to, to pitch myself for consultancy roles and and advisory roles.

[00:31:27] And You know, It also then pushed us to to, getting Katie started with her own limited company, which is aesthetics and doing courses and training around that. So I think that the whole experience really taught me so much and it taught me a lot.

[00:31:42] It was a valuable experience really just in the preparation for that

[00:31:46] role, Because. You know, I really went full, I went full immersion on the prep for that, I had all of these strategies and, and and ideas that I wanted to implement and, and I was already profiling like the members of the team to understand how I could, build relationships with them.

[00:32:05] And it really helped me to establish as well I'd always, I, for another years, I'd been bid to senior level. So then moving to C level, what was that jump?

[00:32:15] Like And what was like, what was going to be the difference in me as a leader? And also what my, I'd not really given any thought to like what my leadership style was.

[00:32:25] It had always been quite ad hoc up to then. So, you know, Was I was I a coach mentality or was I, uh, an autocratic sort of leader or or a servant. So I think the whole experience was just super beneficial to me and and I wouldn't change it. I think there's still. There's still that little itch

[00:32:44] to have a a, a dedicated iGaming role because so many of the people that I, look up to and admire of really flourished in the space. And, yeah, time will tell, but I'm super happy where I am at the moment. I'm grateful for everything that's come to pass.

[00:32:57] That's got me here.

[00:32:58] Love it, man. Hey, Lex, at ITV you've had a bit of a unique opportunity also to step back and really focus on your own development without direct reports. So what's prompted that self reflection and what's been the most eye opening part of that process?

[00:33:13] super unique in that regard because there aren't many. There aren't many people in a vice president position who have no direct reports. Yeah, it's my first time in, in four or five years that, that I've not had somebody that I've been, working with super closely and trying to develop

[00:33:33] historically, ITV has been a very small core team. The majority of their operations have been UK focused and I was brought in to scale their operation in the gaming gambling space globally. So we've had this kind of unique period, almost like a honeymoon for me before, before the new year starts and our team moves into a different area of the business where, I've just been able to really take a step back particularly given everything that's happened this year and just assess myself and where I'm at. and also, look at perhaps problems that are still, that I feel are still really rearing their head or affecting my habits and routines, which I don't find, particularly helpful. So, I've hired a coach. I've started unpicking years of bad habits and begun really realigning my actions with my priorities.

[00:34:33] And yeah, it, I think it surprised me how deep rooted some of those bad habits or what I perceive as being bad or damaging habits are. I'm trying not to beat myself up too much about them because they have all got me to where I am and they've all contributed towards the success. But I feel like when you talk about, chapters in your life and people in your support network having chapters within your life story, I also think that habits, routines, attitudes and and I guess just characteristics that you've built up over time also have chapters. So you know, what served me from 20 to 35 might not serve me anymore for, from 35 to 50.

[00:35:19] So it's really about, again, embracing that impermanence, embracing the change and just trying to find my new baseline, my new normal is.

[00:35:29] yeah. Love it, Lex. All right, my final question. If you could go back to the beginning of your career what advice would you give yourself about maintaining that being and, especially that, that sense of self in a high pressure industry or environment.

[00:35:45] None. I would just say, just stick at it. That would be my only bit of advice. And I think to anybody out there, it's it's a case of just keep going. The good times they will pass the bad times.

[00:35:59] They will pass too. And yeah. I think the gaming and the gambling sectors, who wouldn't want to work in this space, right? Who wouldn't want to be creating games for other people to enjoy whatever they might be. And who wouldn't want to be going to Vegas?

[00:36:19] Who wouldn't want to be going to Barcelona? And I think that there's so much that this industry has to offer just. enjoy it, embrace it keep doing what you're doing. I would say, pause, take a breath and really take the time to decide who you want to be.

[00:36:41] And whether that's as a leader, whether that's as a team member, whether that's or whether that's as a father, son, brother, that's something that really should be taught in schools. It's such an incredibly outdated education system that we have able to self audit and doing it incrementally over time, it's just so important.

[00:37:03] And if I'd been taught how to do that as a kid, I would be in obviously a very different spot to where I am now, but I probably wouldn't have wasted as much time. So I think firstly, do you care? Because a lot of people don't, you know, at the stage that they're at, they don't care what people think of them.

[00:37:19] They don't care the effect they have on others. They don't, they might not even care about what they're doing. If you do care, where are you now and then where do you want to be? And I think recruiting a support network, whatever that happens to be, people that are your soul food, people that are your anchors, your mentors, building out an Avengers style team for yourself. I think that's the advice that I would give to people because humans are not, we are not made. to be islands. we're social creatures. And I think why, why try and do this yourself when there's so many other people out there that are either on the same journey or behind you, or just ahead of you that you can, that you can support each other and learn from each other along the way.

[00:38:10] Thank you very much, Lex. Really loved this talk and thank you for being so open and honest.

[00:38:16] Thanks, mate.

[00:38:17] Thank you for joining me on The iGaming Leader Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, head over to iGamingLeader.com for more conversations and insights. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast.

[00:38:29] I'm your host, Leo Judkins and I hope to see you next week.