Podcast Episode 21: Building your own future, Sasha Uman’s Journey to CCO at Playtech Live

Leo Judkins: Welcome to the iGaming Leader podcast. Today I'm joined by Sasha Oman, the chief, commercial officer Playtex Live. Super excited to have you here, Sasha. We've been talking a little bit beforehand. And,  yeah, just wanted to say welcome because I am so excited to have you here.

You've been recommended by Lex and,  yeah, I can't wait to hear your story.

Sasha Uman: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here and thank you Lex for recommending me. He has high expectations from this podcast as well.

Leo Judkins: I really wanted to start off with your career, if, if that's okay for you. You've had such an impressive career. From finance associate to chief commercial officer. When you look back, what are some of the moments you're most proud of in that entire journey? 

Sasha Uman: I think in general, maybe we start a step back,

[00:02:00] just about how I got into this, you know, this, world of iGaming and e-commerce. So,  I moved to Israel in 2010 and in Israel, if you're not a lawyer, our software engineer, you work in gaming.

then it was Forex or binary options that nobody talks about anymore, but it was, that's, that's what we did back then. So when I moved to Israel in 2010, I got exposed to this amazing world of,  iGaming, and,   I finance and, I started, as a finance manager and then I, I drifted through, online marketing, as an affiliate manager, as head of affiliates. But I think the biggest step for me and the most important step for my future career and, and personal life as well was actually moving to Playtech.

I was working in one of the play two group companies, was amazing. But I always, you know, I was always following the development of play tech, you know, as the mother company and the achievements, and I always knew that that's where I want to work. 

[00:03:00]So I think that's step of making this move to, to the nuclear playbook that was the best thing that I've done.

Leo Judkins: I love it. Why was that? Why did you always know that that's the place that you wanted to, to end up at?

Sasha Uman: in general, I'm a really ambitious person. Hope I'm not driven by ego. Probably both ego and ambition. And I it's hard to tell which is  which is which. But I wanted to do great things. I to work in a big company. I wanted to be successful. I wanted to have, a high significant role within a big corporation.

to work across different markets, across different products. And Playtech is, I think, a unique company that offers all of that.

Many companies in the industry that offer that.

Leo Judkins: Yeah. Okay. Makes a lot of sense. Hey, and,  when were you speaking before, right? One of the things I loved is, is just your approach to what I'd call knocking on doors and actually putting yourself out there. Right? So I wanna talk a little bit about your journey within [00:04:00] Playtech, how you went from, from business development manager to now CCO, and, especially about that, that path of Yeah, like.

Making sure you are actually seen. it was advice that I heard from you that I thought was so good and that not enough people,  actually take, so can you share a little bit more about that journey and, and what some of the things were that you did? 

Sasha Uman: the thing is, I am a person that I doubt myself a lot, and I've been battling self-doubt for years. and you know, sometimes I feel that I, I really, you know, I've, I've gotten much better and I feel much more confident and,  

I'm not there anymore. In that time when I was, I would doubt every step, step I make and then I see something happens that I still, you know, still,  throws me back to, to how I felt before. so I've had this idea about working at Playtech,  a, for a while. And I was thinking, you know, what could be the way for me to get into the door?

Basically, I,  I have met, I. At the, the high management of Platy here in Gibraltar, in the canine one day. 

[00:05:00]So I knew who they were. and then one day I just decided to knock on their door and introduce myself to them because they, they, they've seen me around, but they've never met me. So introduce myself and sort of just try to sell myself.

It was very difficult, especially because, you know, very often we are, we are embarrassed to ask. we are brought up, especially  in Eastern Europe where I come from, asking is embarrassing. I. 

We are brought up with this,  state of mind that things need to be offered to you and then you politely accept, accept or politely decline, but you don't fight for it, especially as a woman as well.

You know, you don't ask, and you for sure don't, you know, don't, don't force yourself. Don't present yourself with somebody's doorstep you know, to, to speak to them, especially if it's senior management.

something that you don't do. So it was really difficult for me, but at the same time I thought, you know, what am I losing maximum?

I will have to avoid them in the canteen next time. You know, that's, worst that can happen here. Yeah. So, um. I introduced myself and I introduced my skills, and it worked out well. You know, there was a good connection, from the

[00:06:00] And,  I was taking into Playtech as a business development manager. that gave me confidence and that also taught me that these things are possible

In order for you to, to succeed, you need to build your own future. No one will do it for you. You know, the only people that wanna take care of you are your parents, and they can't help me here in Play Tech, you know, so it has to be so, I, I have to, I'm on my own.

I have to do it myself. and at when I was, from role to role within Playtech as well. It was, again, understanding what I want and then understanding who are the people that can give it to me. and then you know, working with these people, proving myself, and then having the conversation about, you know, about the next step. in general, I'm a really strong believer in, yourself through hard work.

So for me, I, I get confidence from preparing, from knowing, from experiencing, and that's, that was my approach in Playtech as well. You know, keep your head down, learn, get familiarized with what you need to do, become really good at it.

And then you can knock on other doors, and then you can try,  try to move.

Leo Judkins: [00:07:00] I so love it, Sasha, because so many people are. I don't know. Most people would probably, describe it as too polite, and they just wait and wait and wait for somebody to hopefully see them. But metaphorically, even knocking on someone's door right, is just the right thing to do because people don't always, they don't know what you know.

Right. They don't see what you see. But that must have been so difficult for you if you've, like you were saying before, you've, you've struggled with self-doubt for a long time. That's been a big part of your history that you've battled through and still sometimes run into. So how did that moment go, the very first time that you were gonna, that you decided, all right, I'm gonna do this.

That self-doubt must have crept up. Right. How were you feeling in that moment and, and what were you, what did you do?

Sasha Uman: So the thing is, in that moment specifically, I had no self-doubt because, I'm also very impulsive. Person so ambitious and impulsive, and maybe it's not the best mix, you know, you know, that's what usually happens with me in the moment. I feel no doubt at all.

Is afterwards, you know, processing it. so actually making this first step, wasn't too difficult because I, I knew I wanted it, waiting for the answer was very difficult. And that's how it always is, right? You have this conversation, you approach the person and then they have other things in their lives.

Not, not everything revolves around you. So maybe they will take, I don't know, a week to get back to you, a week and a half, two weeks. Of course you think that it's all about you, right? So

That's it. They, they're not interested or they don't think that, you know, that it's relevant. Or they think that I embarrassed myself, so now I will avoid them again because we're, it office, so I will avoid them.

To make sure that, you know, the, the embarrassment never, you know, haunts me again. But it's, it's not like this. People have especially senior managers, they're busy.

Have other priorities. is personal. They have lives. not everything revolves around that person that came to ask. and it's, it's easy to fall into this, self-doubt and start going over the meeting over and over in your head thinking, what did I do wrong? 

[00:09:00] What could I have said differently? But there's no point to do it. Because first of all, you can't go back and change anything. So you did it Now, you don't now live with it and

wait for, for, for everyone to get back to you. But I remember as well, so I presented myself to, to the Playtech management, to to the, to the COO then. a week and a half passed, and I haven't, you know, I didn't hear back from them. So I knocked on the door again I reminded about myself. and then another, I don't remember how much, but some time passed.

And again, there was no answer. So, I ran into him, at the gym. I. And then at the gym, she couldn't really escape from me. I again, reminded about our conversation. then it happened.

And what I've learned from this is asking once and having that first meeting is not enough. If you really want it, you need to follow up and to follow through and to ask again. And,  not being embarrassed once is not enough. You need to, you know, come back to it until you get what you want. If you really want it,

You can drop it. But,  if you really want it, you have to follow up.

Leo Judkins: [00:10:00] Such a great parallel with sales, right? And business development. It's the same thing. yeah, The big part of that is getting over yourself, right? Getting over your own embarrassment of, of actually doing it. We're often our own worst enemies.

Great advice. So Sasha, when the, the overthinking afterwards, right? You are better with that now, you said, so what are some of the things that you, that you've done or that you do to help you with overcoming that overthinking When maybe you've had a big conversation or there's been a big decision, or there's been a big event that's happened and you are not just not sure if you've handled it well.

How do, how do you deal with that now?

Sasha Uman: luckily I'm very busy. So being busy helps with overthinking you overthink for a while and then you just move on to, to think about other

So just keeping myself busy helps me with that. I have a few people, who are very close to me. Some work with me, some don't, who I just sort of talk, through the situation and then they, and sort of move on, after I've spoken to them.

[00:11:00] What I try to do most times is to ask myself, can I do something about the situation now? To, to make it better, to, to speed it up, to, to impact it in any way. And if the answer is no, just try to sort of forbid myself it, to go, to go to that place. I combination of, of all these three elements at the end helps me move on and not to overthink.

Leo Judkins: that's one thing, isn't it? It's so easy to stay stuck in your head, but when you start talking to somebody about it, it, it makes a massive difference. 

So it's important to have that environment around you. When you didn't have these tools, you know, a few years ago, a few, like maybe at the beginning of your career.

What would be some of the consequences of you overthinking things too much? would it result into you going down that rabbit hole and starting to endlessly doubt everything? What did that look like? What were some of the consequences of you overthinking?

Sasha Uman: [00:12:00] So yes, going down that rabbit hole where you start doubting everything, not only everything you're doing now, but everything you've done in the past, all of a sudden the past achievements are no longer relevant. All of a sudden you are, you know, thinking even that, you know, even that didn't matter.

And of course, like nothing that you'll do will ever matter. And at the end it would impact my, productivity at work and at home.

Would take myself to the place where I'd be so upset about something

Yeah, I wouldn't be functioning properly. Not at work and not at home. Which again, which is a vicious circle when you're, when you're not,  functioning properly at work, yes, you don't perform as well, and then you are not happy with yourself, and then it just, it's impossible to stop it. It's really, really difficult to snap outta this once you're in it.

Leo Judkins: I love that you've overcome that because that's something that so many I struggle with it regularly overthinking and it's some something that so many of us, get stuck in and, and, and then that self-doubt creep creeps in. How's that been through, through your career? 

[00:13:00]Because in, I think in about four years or so, you've moved from, from biz dev all the way up to CCO, like that must have, gone with, you know, maybe sometimes feeling like an imposter or perhaps feeling that you are not sure about what to do.

How did you, how did you deal with that?

Sasha Uman: I have to say that in the last, let's say three, four years, I've been really fortunate to have, a really strong support system, you know, professionally, that helped me overcome the imposter, syndrome and in general, self-doubt.

I think in general it's very important to have, few people that are your people at work, because at the end we spend a lot of time at work. It's important to have people that you can joke with, that you can, share information with and that you can get advice from. Right? And for me it's been critical to find these people. To support them and then have them support me. I remember when I just joined Playtech, it was a big role.

[00:14:00] I was responsible for the branded, business development, which meant, speaking with, big entertainment companies in the US like Warner Brothers, MGM, , Sony Pictures. So really, really big companies, which already make you feel like an imposter because it's just, you know, they're so great and you are. Based here in Gibraltar. What, what, you know, what do I know about entertainment?

And also, you know, being new at Playtech with this big role, being in business development or in sales can be very lonely. I don't usually have a team. You have a team who are, you are,  competitors in a way, right?

Because you're going after different deals or sometimes after the same deal. And when it came to branded business development, it was just me. So it's, it's, it's a lonely, role because you don't have anyone you can ask for advice. know, people don't have time for you.

So it can be,, it can be very difficult. And I'm a very friendly person, but I remember my first ICE. when Plato goes to ice, we usually have, the whole hotel to ourselves. And, it can be a very pleasant, social event for some, or it can be a disaster if you are If you are just learning the, the ropes.

[00:15:00] I remember, I, I knew hardly, I hardly knew anyone at Playtech. And I remember I would try to skip through the hotel lobby really, really quickly to get to the lift and then go to my room because I just didn't want to, to awkwardly stand there while no. No one was speaking to me. It was just, it was a horrible social experience.

It, it was difficult. And it can be difficult for,, for many people I'm sure, because I'm outgoing. So if it was for me, I can imagine how difficult it could have been for, you know, for people who are more introverted.

But then, you know, with time I found those people that I work well with value me and who I value

And once and a group like this, you know, people like this give you, confidence. Professional confidence, friendly support. You give them friendly support, and then it helps you overcome self-doubt and helps you overcome, insecurities,

[00:16:00] And I think for me, again, you know, having these people really helped me succeed, next time I wanted, to switch roles next time I wanted to speak with somebody, you know knock on on the next door. I would ask them like, how do you, what do you think? Do you think it's a good

Do you think, you know, and get their perspective? And they would empower me the same way, that I would empower them each time they would, you know, they would want to make a change.

Leo Judkins: Amazing. Sasha. Such a, such a great story. One of the things I often see with people that they find really difficult is actually taking off that mask. You know what I mean? Sometimes we wanna, wanna look professional and we wanna be professional, and we wanna show ourselves from our best side because that.

You know, that goes hand in hand with career progression and salary progression and all of that. But sometimes the best moments are actually when you take off the mask and you show your real self and, and, and you lean into that network. Right. So, can you talk to me a little bit more about that?

Like, how's, how's that gone for you? Have you found that difficult? Some people find it really hard, you know, to, to be their authentic self? Or is that something that you've always done? Is that something that you learned to do? How, how did that go for you?

Sasha Uman: [00:17:00] I think I do. am rather myself most

But I, I cover myself up with being polite in a way, and I'll  I mean. Very often I'll say that something is fine, even when it's not, very often I would say yes, just because I doesn't feel right to me saying no. Actually that's something that I'm trying to work on.

How to be myself, but not in a way, not to be more open, not to be more, authentic, not to be, more transparent. Not that because that I'm okay with, but just sort of speaking up when something is not fine. Saying no, when something doesn't feel right. 

And it's, you know, it can be small things like,  you know, attending a meeting, late in the evening and trying, you know, to, prioritize that meeting over the needs of my family, even though that meeting is not really needed, but I don't feel nice, you know, saying no.

so it can be something small like that, or it can be bigger things. for me that that's the main challenge now, just to, to actually what's best for me in and be, make decisions and, you know, reply in a way that, that basically reflects that and not,  my uneasiness on me trying to be polite.

Leo Judkins: [00:18:00] It's so difficult, right? Those boundaries. And, and,  I wanna go back to something that you said in the beginning. I. Where he talks about one of the, one of your core values is working hard, knowing your stuff, right. And then only then kind of knocking on doors and, and showing yourself, which,  is such great work, work ethic.

But that as a, you know, I know you've got kids, right? So as a, as a person that has a family can be really, really difficult to then balance those two things and make sure that you have good enough boundaries to also not just physically be present, but mentally be present at home. Right. So how have you, what, what are some of the things that you've learned over time, you know, as a parent and being able to, like learning to switch off and, and then being there with the kids and your partner?

How's that? How's what have, what are some of the things that, that you've learned over time There?

Sasha Uman: First of all, I think, Playtech is an incredible company when it comes to, work life balance. And Playtech in general values family time, and I've been extremely [00:19:00] lucky, with my managers as well, who always have respected. The fact that, you know, have families. They have families.

So it's been, , I've been really lucky because it's, it's been comfortable, yes. You have to work hard. Yes. You have to work late. Yes. You would have, a lot of business trips, but there's always understanding and there's, you know, I, I never feel. Afraid to have to leave early or to have to attend school functions or to, switch off during the, during the evening.

Because Playtech has accommodated for me and for everyone else. I think other people would agree that, the culture within Playtech is really healthy when it comes to, work life balance in general.

And in addition to that, of course I have a good support system at home as well, which is, extremely important to have this balance. Because like, like it's important to have supports at work. It's even more important to have support at home, you know? 

But in general, I remember times. My eldest son is now 10 and a half, so I remember times when I would think twice about mentioning, you know, my, my children or then, then child, you know, in the office setting.  

[00:20:00] I remember, you know, not trying to hide it, but you know, it's just something that you wouldn't talk about because then people will think that you won't be as committed to work or you won't be as available.

Have to tell you that I haven't felt this in years and I have three children and I haven't felt. That I need to,, try and try avoiding talking about my kids or that I can be viewed differently because I have kids. I haven't felt this in years, in years. I don't even remember how that feels. I think, you know, the fact that I have kids doesn't make me stronger or weaker.

A fact that doesn't really have much to do with what I do at work.

You know, people that say that, you know, you do it all. No one does it all.

But I think the kind of workplace that I, I work for and the kind of managers I had, helped me balance, what I have at home, in a much better way, same as my family.

system that I have at home helps me balance what I need to do at work.

Leo Judkins: [00:21:00] Yeah. I love that. Look. One of the big things that I often see. And I struggle with personally as well, and I have, have done in the past is that it's not just the work environment, right? It's actually often just ourselves. We want to keep on working and we want to, you know, like we are, we are often our own worst enemies.

And, yeah, again, realizing when that happens and, and learning. And helpful behaviors to switch off, I think can, can really help there, even if you've got a massively supporting surrounding because your head just keeps on going sometimes. Right. And I think that's the, um. That's the hardest part. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit about travel, if that's okay.

And conference like our, our typical, you know, industry thing, right? Where lots of conferences, how do you deal with that?  Sasha just kind of, , coming back, maybe there's some work waiting for you in the office. Of course. Kids are excited to see you again.

You know, and you, you're probably tired from a long, you know, a long event. Three, four days being away, five days maybe. So how do you deal with that? What are some things that you find really challenging? And what are some things that you've learned that work well for [00:22:00] you in, in your conference management? 

Sasha Uman: So usually when I go away, I try to still stay on top of my inbox just because I know that if I don't, I'll have anxiety over what's waiting for me when I get back home. And so I try to prevent it. I try to catch up on emails and messages every day. It doesn't usually take that long.

So even catching an hour between the conference and dinner to sort of get control over my inbox then helps me get, you know,  focus on being at home once I get home.

For me, and again, like I get anxiety if I know that there's a lot of work waiting for me, I get anxiety, when people are waiting for my approval to proceed with something and I'm not providing it to them.

Because at the end, it's not my team's fault that I'm traveling, right? They shouldn't be, their day to day shouldn't be changing just because, I'm somewhere away in business.

I'm trying now to prevent this anxiety by just trying to do every, a bit, you know, a a little bit of work every day, even when I'm conference, and then come back to hopefully a cleaner inbox.

Leo Judkins: [00:23:00]  Yeah, that makes sense. I'd love to talk a little bit about challenges, if that's okay. So, I often see that,  our biggest challenges become our biggest lessons as well. They become, they often become,  the drivers that when we are in the middle of it is so horrible, but they.

Become our biggest lessons and often the things that really define us, you know, our futures. What have been some of the challenges in your leadership, you know, in your leadership career that help define you and how you show up as a, as as a person in your team,  and within your business?

Sasha Uman: The biggest challenge in my previous, role before I joined Playtech, the company management changed while I was on maternity leave actually. and I came back to a new reality. There was someone else doing the same role as me and we were supposed to work together and you know how well that always turns out. And I remember I completely folded.  It's not nice to, you know, to think about it now. It's not nice remembering that now because I'm not happy with how I acted back then.

[00:24:00] I sort of accepted that this is what it is now. And I sort of, I don't wanna say give up because give up is too, too strong of a word, but I. I got extremely down because

I define myself through working through my success at work. Whether it's right or wrong, I don't know, but it is what it

So for me, having that someone else. doing my job together with me was a, was a sign of failure, now looking back, I understand that the new management needed their people.

I wasn't one of their people. And it's, it's fine. At the end, me and the other guy, we became really good friends. We're still in touch. Back then. just, I sort of, I took a step back,  and I let that decision impact who I was with my team, who I was at home even, you know, so, it's very difficult for me to, you know, to think back, , about the time because I'm thinking, you know, why did this, why I didn't fight?

[00:25:00] Why I didn't I even have a conversation with my new boss asking why this decision was taken, whether I could maybe pick up some additional responsibilities to differentiate myself from my colleague. I didn't even, I didn't even try to fight. I just accepted it.

And then after I did, and I moved to Playtech, I told myself never again. Never again Maybe I will again find myself in this situation because anything can happen. But never again will I accept the situation it the same way I did, back then.

It was a really big challenge. And I didn't handle it right the first, the first time around. But I, I learned something from it.

I try to stay away from, strong statements. You know, I would never do this again, but I know that I would never allow myself to be in that place again, where I give up, where I just accept, the reality as is if it matters to me,

Agree with it, if it's fine with me, it's also okay to take a backseat if that's what you want.

I wanted, and I did

Leo Judkins: [00:26:00] Thank you for sharing that, Sasha, because that must have been such a difficult period. You come out of, I mean, you are already on maternity leave, right? You come back af how many, how, how long were you away for?

Sasha Uman: I came back after three months because I was too concerned about everything at work and that I'm also not proud of, like, not proud of, you know, running back to the office because I was afraid that I'll be, you know, I'll be replaced 

Leo Judkins: What, so, So how does that show up now? How do you deal with adversity now and, and you know, things that You disagree with when you feel that something is unjust or you know, how do you, how do you deal with that now? 

Sasha Uman: First I would ask myself how important that is to me, right? it's not really important, I. It's not worth fighting for. 

[00:27:00] But if then I would fight for it until the end in my own way. And doing things, things in my own way, I think is what, gave me, you know, strength the years and what helped me succeed in things I did. it's a, It's an interesting story actually, around four or five years ago, I worked, with a positive psychology specialist, who actually who was working for Playtech and she held, one-on-one sessions and also,  group activities, which are, which are great.

And I remember the first time I spoke to her, I told her, look, there are three people that, I really, I find them really successful. I find them really good at what they do. I admire them on the professional level. 

So I want to have their skills. I want to act like, like they act, I want to be like them. And she told me, but that's not how it works. 

You need to look at your own strengths and at your own weaknesses, but we are here to talk about positive psychologists or strengths. We need to look at what you, what, what your strong sides are, and what you want to achieve and how you achieve it using your strengths,

[00:28:00] If you will try to do something like someone else does. You can, maybe you'll succeed, but you'll have this aftertaste all through, you know, all through the success. You'll have this aftertaste of things not sitting right with you because at achieve it. Not through your own way, but through, through a way that belongs to somebody else.

And I really, you know, I really connected, to that and I've been sort of following this, philosophy ever since. because. Four or five years ago I was thinking, hmm, you know, in order to be successful, you need to be ruthless

And I'm not a ruthless person, so this means that I need to become ruthless. I she explained to me that, you know, you can't become ruthless. You either are or you're not. and if you try to become ruthless, you'll feel bad afterwards because that's not who you are. need to find ways to achieve what you need being polite, through being hardworking, through being nice, through being friendly one of your strengths. And that's, you know, that's, that's what I've been following. 

[00:29:00] Until now, and I, and I'm, I'm a strong believer in that I really think that, possible to, to achieve things in your own way. There's no one way that works for, for all. It's important to figure out how you want things to be, you are comfortable, comfortable with, what you're not comfortable with, and then, you know, and then act accordingly.

Leo Judkins: Yeah. Amazing. Great advice because it's so easy to see someone else and just do exactly the same thing as that they're doing, but then you're just not your authentic self. Right? And it just goes against your core values. I think also, it doesn't mean that you can't mimic behaviors as long as they're just aligned with who you are.

Right? 

Leo Judkins: You mentioned there were a few challenges that you wanted to talk about or that you wanted to, share what, any, any others that you feel kind of really defined your leadership journey there Session. 

Sasha Uman: Another challenge for me and I've had it several times was when, I was assigned a team that already existed that was already managed by someone else. And for me, you know, coming in, into a preexisting team, has proven in the past rather challenging, because, there's a really thin line about, uh. keeping things that were,  in the way they were done before, making changes and how to make these changes properly so the team, is comfortable with that and what to keep from, from the previous times, what not to keep. 

[00:31:00] It's difficult. So for that's, that's been, very challenging. And, and I've been lucky having amazing teams, but also managing them remotely. You know, my team is, is based in Rega now mostly. So managing them remotely, coming into really big shoes of the previous manager, having that, you know, that part of business in addition to other elements, that my role is comprised of.

So that, I think in general, that's rather difficult. People management is always difficult people remotely.  is very difficult an existing team. Very difficult. and I

I know that I need to become a better manager. I don't think that I'm always, my best self when I manage people. So that's something that I definitely need to work on. 

Leo Judkins: So, so why do you say that, Sasha? Where do you see that? Where do you see that? Perhaps you have areas that you really want to improve on, or where do you feel that sometimes you're not the best manager?

Sasha Uman: [00:32:00] I think sometimes, I don't in invest enough into their professional development in, into my development. Because, you know, we are all busy, and I'm busy. 

And sometimes I think, you know, just doing something myself, instead, or just having a quick call where sort of, quickly explain,, how it needs to look. It's just, it, it's faster than. in the team development on daily basis, 

And, educating them, bringing them up to the point where they can do things on their own. what I'm not prioritizing now and that's something that I want to work on and become better at for sure.

Leo Judkins: it's so difficult, isn't it, with delegation? Like really, we should all delegate for developments and we should delegate, you know, not just tasks, but actual. Actual decisions. But the difficulty is that, you know, if we don't have to explain it and we do it ourselves, of course it's gonna be faster.

[00:33:00] But then you become the bottleneck as well. Right. And, and that development never happens. So,  I. Yeah, it's a real struggle. So have you found ways to deal with that effectively, especially when deadlines are tight or you're under a lot of pressure to, to perform in a certain period of whatever, a certain period of performance?

What are some of the things that, you've tried or you are practicing to, to help you with, with delegating better?

Sasha Uman: For me to delegate better is just to start delegating that, that would be, that would be step one. 

And actually I've seen, projects where I would bring, some of my team in, from the very beginning where they would, attend the first demo call and then would, work with me towards the signature of the contract or, you of the studio, where the team was involved from the very beginning, it was much easier to delegate as well.

Right.they knew what I was talking about. So I didn't have to start from scratch each to, to, to speak to them. So I think for me, just remembering. To involve the right people from the first call. That's already, you know,  the, the, the first step on the way to, to then further delegate. 

[00:34:00] And also I think over the years I've,  I've learned, the strengths, of each of the member of my team. So  now I know, who is the, the best placed person to handle a certain case and to to work together, with me on a certain case. So then I would involve them early on in the process and then I can.

Sasha Uman: You know, I, I'm a hundred percent confident in them, and then I know that things will get done and then, coming back to them, to the conference, question, that's one of the way to cope because now when I properly try to delegate, 

I know that my team is there to support me when I'm at the conference and things will get done when I'm at the conference and there won't be bottlenecks and there won't be, anxiety of having an inbox that just, that is exploding. there's still so much, you know, so much for me to do and to learn. But I'm, I'm, I'm really, I'm really trying.

Year has been, you know, that's, that's one of my,  one of my goals to be

Leo Judkins: it's so interesting. We talk about it in our mastermind all the time as well, because it's like a, it's like a lever, right? It's leverage. The, the problem is short term. It doesn't, it doesn't give you any time. Actually, it costs a lot of time short term, but long term, it really frees you up and it allows you then to do.

[00:35:00] All of the higher level stuff that, you know, strategic thinking, the project work that is gonna deliver far more value and you'll finally have time for that. But it means that you have to go through this short term pain of spending a lot of time explaining everything. And then when it comes back, you know, of course it has to be redone and you have to go feedback.

And I think that's the, that's the hardest bit. 

Sasha Uman: but at the same time, you know, if we're speaking about the, the, the support, you know, support system at work, people that work directly, with you in your team, may have a different point of view. May

In a different light. So having their feedback is, is also extremely important for the success of the project, right?

And, again, involving people and working with them and, and speaking to them more can lead to this time well,  being well spent and not, you know, not sort of invested, invested for nothing.

Leo Judkins: [00:36:00] Yes. Yeah. Actually it goes back to what we were saying way earlier in the beginning, which is about that it's when you're overthinking, it's so easy to be stuck in your own head and you keep on going and going and going in spirals. This is true for strategic projects as well, so the more that you actually talk with your team and and work on delegation, the more input you get and the more diverse type of thinking you get, which allows you then to see something from multiple angles.

Perhaps you haven't seen by yourself before. If you think about somebody in,  in business development that wants to make the same sort of progress, accelerate their career, just like you have, think about yourself five, five and a half years ago, what are some of the advice you would, you would give them?

What is, what are some of the things that you feel somebody,  that would really put somebody on the front foot when it comes to progressing their career?

Sasha Uman: [00:37:00] I think success, can be achieved, through hard work and through knowledge. So, first, learn. My first advice would be just learn. Try to be. A true professional at what you do. try to have deep understanding of what you do. try to understand not only, you know, the, the sales pitch, but if we're talking about, you know, selling, iGaming products, try to understand those products, play those games, speak to people, , from different departments, uh. Don't talk only about revenue share, right? to close the,  revenue share percentage, is the easiest thing.

Know everything else. Represent the company fully if you do that, you may find yourself, at some point working. More closely, together with the, not only the sales team, the business development team, but other teams within the company, maybe changing your career direction to work, in a different team.

But if you, if you don't ask questions, and if you don't, meet with people, if you don't gather that knowledge, you'll never know that maybe there are other things that may interest you.

Leo Judkins: Yeah. Love it. Thank you very much for being part of the podcast, Sasha. It was amazing talking to you.

Sasha Uman: It was a pleasure. Thank you.