Podcast Episode 10: From Police Raids to Transforming iGaming Events — Pierre Lindh’s Story

Leo Judkins: [00:00:00] Pierre, great to see you here on the podcast all the way from Cancun. Thank you so much for making the time. And yeah, welcome to the iGaming Leader.

Pierre  Lindh: Thank you so much, Leo. I'm very happy to be here with you today.

Leo Judkins: It's really, really great having you. I wanted to kick off with, I'm not sure if it's going to be my favorite story yet, but I remember you telling me that you've got this story about opening a poker club. I think only on your LinkedIn, it says 18, but I believe it was like 17 or something. Tell me a little bit more about that.

[00:02:00] Like, what was your, how did you enter the industry? 

Pierre  Lindh: It was in the year of, 2000 and, was that? 2004. The year I was turning 18 we can we can say like that. 

I very much come from a gambling background, you know in Sweden when we are raised we are raised we're playing poker You know, we were seven eight years old. We knew what a straight flush was. We knew what a two pair was. It's very much part of our culture with the kind of board games and playing card games and so on. It was no surprise when the poker boom hit the world in and around 2003 and four that the Swedish population just exploded with playing poker. I was in high school at that time and we used to play poker at every school break. 

I was the one who was in charge of the book. So I was keeping track of who was owing who money. We didn't play for much, but, nonetheless, it was a really fun activity. We did that that time and we just had a great time with it. So, once we finished school, I decided to then take this poker game out of the school and actually formalize that into a poker club, right?

[00:03:00] So, when I was 17, as you, as you mentioned, I found that the, what would become one of the biggest, poker clubs in Scandinavia, Obviously in Sweden, being a monopoly with gambling, it's questionable legally whether you can host poker So, on the 26th of October 2006, I hosted a poker night for around 150 people. 

It was a big, big, big night for the club there. And at the middle of the night, you hear the door slam open and Boo, boo boo, boo boo. You know, 15 police officers storm up into my poker club and the screams put down the cards. Who is the organizer here? And, you know, me, a little boy at the time, I put up my hand and I guess the police were expecting some form of like Hells Angels criminal ring in there or something of the sort, but it turned out to just be a very innocent, little poker club for poker enthusiasts to play for a very modest amount of money.

[00:04:00]  We had no alcohol, no other, Gambling apparatuses in, in that lab where we just kind of a daycare for grownups that we used to call ourselves there. So, that's how I entered the industry basically earlier. And there was no turning back since then, yeah.

Leo Judkins: I love it. How, how did that make you feel? That must've been quite scary at 17. And I'm also super curious what you did, how did, how did you deal with the customers that were there? The people that were playing poker?

Pierre  Lindh: Well, At that age, I think there is a sense of invincibility.So for me, it was just like, Oh, wow, this is happening now. And I was taken into questioning the police. I did that. And then  the next day, we have three newspapers in Sweden, three national newspapers, Aftonbladet, Expressen and Kvällsposten. 

I was on the front cover of all three newspapers in the country of Sweden on the 28th of October, 2006. so I still have one of those front covers at home. I have it framed and, the next day I must have gotten 500 phone calls, at least from journalists who were calling. 

[00:05:00] I mean, my phone was just constantly [ringing from morning till evening for weeks. it's just really surreal when you're at that age. You know, you don't really understand the world. You don't really understand what's going on around you. So for me, it was just, okay, now we're in this and, yeah, let's go through this and see what happens and what comes out of it. 

And we, we just love playing poker and we continued playing poker throughout that period when the police were questioning and doing the research, which maybe in hindsight was not the smartest thing to do.

I still organize those events. but I think it was the police who quickly realized that this was, not really what they had thought it was going to be like, they thought that this was literally like, on the ground criminal ring that was organizing this events. And it just turned out to be some kids playing poker.

So during questioning, I remember the police commissioner, he was a very nice man. And, he told me, you know, Pierre. We know that you're still organizing the poker tournaments. And like, it's not good that you do this, because if we come again, we will arrest you, you know, just don't make any fuss about it, and we're not gonna bother you. So, all right, cool. So we just continued playing poker for the next two years there, before I moved on.

Leo Judkins: [00:06:00] That's awesome, man. That's really, that's a fantastic story. You've, you've, you've had this entrepreneurial spirit, from what I can see throughout your career, but I suppose all of your life. Where does that come from? How's that kind of started and 

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah, I've been thinking about that myself actually, because I think I've always been a bit different in some ways. Yeah. You know, I tend to get hyper focused on things, and I don't know if there's like a letter combination behind that, to some extent. But, when I was a child, you know, I got really obsessed with playing tennis, and sometimes people didn't want to play tennis with me.

So I would play on the garage door. I would shoot a tennis ball for four hours straight, you know, without thinking about anything else. and so that hyper focus has shifted throughout the years. You know, I was a semi professional counter strike player in esports also around 2002, 2001. I would play counter strike for like 12 hours a day and that was the hyper focus. 

[00:07:00] Then poker became the hyper focus and the poker club, just the idea of starting that club was just so fixed in my head that there was a boundless amount of energy that I would be able to put into that product. and then after that, I thought Malta would be a really cool place to move to.

So I kind of redirected my energy to make that happen. So, to be honest, I think it's that hyperfocused that has driven me into projects that I'm excited for. And I think that's in general what drives me is like when I lose the excitement with something. Where I tend to move on with things and the company that I'm running now with Next.

io I've always been saying the same thing. It's like, as long as we keep developing and coming up with new ideas and trying to achieve really difficult things and, reinvent ourselves constantly and, and grow as fast as we can and stuff like that, then I am the MD of the company. But the moment is time to, kind of slow down and focus on incremental changes in the company, then I'm not the right MD because my energy is just going to move elsewhere.

[00:08:00] So I think it's the hyper focus that has followed me throughout my life.

Leo Judkins: Yeah, love that. And does that make it really easy or really hard for you to stay super consistent with things? Or are you constantly looking for some of these new highs that you can find somewhere else? Where are you on that spectrum? 

Pierre  Lindh: I think for any person and like if I would consider myself a high achiever, There are many days where that energy fluctuates. I had those periods sometimes where it just gets too much. 

You know, I think it also comes a little bit with age because, like the early twenties and whatnot, you know, the energy just doesn't stop. You can just do it seven days a week and there's no ending to it. You know, even like going out and stuff, I used to be a lot involved in the nightlife in Malta. We would be out all the time. And then the next day I would be, you know, on point on time and I would work. 

But now I know that if I go out even to an iGaming event and whatnot, it's a sacrifice that comes with that. That's like, I'm not going to perform as well the next day, for example. Now it's becoming more and more about managing that output and putting that energy into a more sustainable place where I can have consistent output rather than a burst of energy. 

[00:09:00] And then there's like a calm down that comes with that. And I find that in my training as well, for example, like I'm an ultra marathon runner. I do a lot of sports in general, and I find the same thing there that it's not so much these days about, like, going to the gym or going for a run and you just killing myself because I know that if I do that, I have to take breaks from time to time.

Like I want to have a bit more sustainable output each day. I think it comes down to that to try to be a little bit more sustainable. I have off days for sure, and off weeks even where I don't. I just don't feel I can get the same amount of work done. It comes from a particularly busy period. And, the negative consequence of that is like you're trying to keep yourself busy, but you're just not doing the same valuable amount of work. 

[00:10:00] You know, like, how can you put this like really high output, like the 10 X productivity? How can you be in that space? Like you can't really be in that space for too long, you know? So you have to try to find the right moments.

Leo Judkins: Yeah, can't sprint in a marathon. I love it. So a lot of people that will be listening are kind of in that mindset of all or nothing, you know, kind of peaking and then maybe coming down like you were saying earlier, how you were maybe in your twenties. How did you change that mindset from focusing more on sustainability rather than, you know, short term bursts?

Pierre  Lindh: It's trial and error, to be honest. I am questioning myself if I have off days. Like, oh my, why do I have an off day today? Like, what led to this off day? Is it something that I ate? Is it Sleep? Is it something else? 

And some days you enter the zone and you feel invincible, you know, and I think about that, too. What led me to that moment where it could enter that zone and just get so much stuff done. I think everyone is very different in how they achieve these flow states or how they get the most done. 

[00:11:00] Some people are extremely organized. So if you create like time blocking and Pomodoro techniques and all these like really organized ways of the creating output, for those people, it might work much better than someone like me, for example, who is, I feel I'm more on the creative spectrum and, I'm not as organized, I think, as many other people are. 

So, to have many different things going at the same time. I can sometimes dive into a particular project and, and, and dedicate time to that. It really is, trial and error. It's really, really individualistic. Like I'm reading a lot of books about output and productivity leadership, I feel the outcome of reading a lot of those books is that everyone is unique and. 

[00:12:00] Those books you should probably not fall back on completely and copy them, but you should probably take the information and adapt it to who you are as your own individual, unique person and find your own way forward.

And that's why it's so difficult. Like there isn't a Bible for these things that you can just read this, read this one book and you will be perfect after that. It's like, no, you really need to, you really need to get to know yourself first. 

Leo Judkins: I love it because it's so that's so important that you know, we often feel that we almost have to copy one on one these things that we read and these really popular self development books and then it doesn't work. 

And then maybe you feel that you're wrong, there's something wrong with you, but it's never true, right? It's more about finding what works for you and adapting those frameworks. 

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Leo Judkins: So in 2016, I believe you founded Next. io, I'll get in next. What, what, what motivated you to do that? What, what motivated you to? To start that and go from where you were before to, yeah, to founding, founding that business.

Pierre  Lindh: [00:13:00] We founded our original event business in 2013. And at that time, the hyper focus became to create the best and the coolest parties and events in Malta and beyond for ourselves and for the iGaming industry. So between 2013 and 2020, when the pandemic hit, we had organized more than 600 individual events. And Next. io was founded in 2019, right, so a year before the pandemic. 

And that was, basically our idea that we've organized so many events for other people. So, like, we used to help Sigma, a lot when they started to help them to establish themselves. We helped, MIGS, which was the o event in Malta at that time to, to establish themselves. We helped a lot of other companies to establish their events. 

And we were like, why are we doing this? Doing this for other people, we should start something ourselves, you know, and so I think in 2019, we were ready, like we were a bit more mature at that time and we kind of have gone through the circles and we had a good network, so the idea with Next.io was then, yeah, let's start our own thing and let's see if we can build our own iGaming show basically, so That became a big success the first year in 2019 and 2020 was gonna be the big year for us.

[00:14:00] And we went into that year with a lot of excitement. And then of course the pandemic hit on March 12th, I think it was where we had to cancel all the events of the entire year. We lost a hundred percent of revenues in the company and everything was thrown on its head at that time. But yeah, 2019 was when it happened and we decided we're going to build something ourselves.

Leo Judkins: And so what happened then, there, Pierre, when 2020 hits? And that must've been, especially in an event space, right? Where, like you said, you lost a hundred percent of the revenue. Everything is digital. Everything is, sorry, offline. So what did, how did you feel and what did you do?

Pierre  Lindh: In hindsight, I think. It was the most important and needed period of my entire life. Actually, at the time it was a complete disaster. The way our company functioned at that time was, Q. One was a planning quarter, so we didn't do that many events during that time. 

[00:15:00] And then from March onwards is where we hosted all our events.So we would organize between 100 to 150 events per year. And, they all happen from March onwards. so when the events were cancelled in March, we had zero revenue. So we accumulate debt. And then the idea is always that we pay off that debt with the revenues that come from Q2 onwards.

And, we had a big decision to make at that time, right? Which was, we don't know when the events are coming back. We don't know what's gonna happen after this. We don't know how the world is gonna change. You know, all the events are canceled. Everything is gone. Do we keep going or do we, do we just put down the company and become workers or do something else? 

And it was a very, in retrospect, it was a very interesting decision because we never really questioned the fact that we were going to figure things out. And so we came together as a company at that time. We weren't that many employees. We were like eight people or something at that time. And we said, well, First of all, we have to lower our salaries.

[00:16:00] That's just a prerequisite. we, we lowered all the salaries to a thousand euros per month. That's what we can afford to extend our runway into the end of the year. So we had, we had nine months basically to reinvent the company. And we told our employees, you know, we understand that this is maybe not the most fun period. We will have to work, you know, ten times as hard and you have to cut your salaries by, you know, a lot. 

We will also cut our salaries at me and Martin, my co-founder and do it in solidarity. But if you decide to leave, we will support you and we will help you to find a new role. But no one questioned that we just came together.

Yeah, of course, we're going to figure this out. We had two potential outcomes when we ventured into this time, which was either we figure things out Or, and we, eventually we'll need to seek investment into the company. So we had a runway to the end of the year, and we need to know that we need to find investment into the company and if we manage to do that, then we will be in the best position we've ever been or we will fail.

[00:17:00] And considering that we have VAT and tax debt that will fall on me and my co-founder personally, we will be in debt for the next 10 years. So it was a very dualistic black and white. Kind of outcome that this was going to lead to. And I think there's an enormous amount of energy that comes with having the knife against the throat during periods like that. And we just worked insanely hard and all the years of hard work came together in many ways because we've really done a lot of good things for our partners. We build the reputation of being reliable. We had really good stuff who were super committed. We were quite smart in the way we were thinking about changing our projects.

[00:18:00] So our competitors, they were trying to bring exhibitions online and we felt that was like a really weird thing to do. Because why would you want to exhibit online when there's LinkedIn, like you can already go to a company page and we don't want to compete with LinkedIn. So we found a niche basically, which was thought leadership in iGaming until 2020 was only available if you paid a thousand euro to go to Ice V or any of the other two events that were happening at the time that offered thought leadership.

You had to pay a really expensive ticket in order to go and see panels from smart people talking about the future of the gaming industry. And so we decided to bring all of that content online. Let's bring all the smartest people together. Let's produce content and we release it to the entire industry for free. This was like a mind blowing idea that, that, like at the time it sounds so intuitive, it sounds so simple and straightforward, but no one was doing that at the time and that led to the podcast and being a launch that led to other initiatives that we launched to spread thought leadership of the industry. 

[00:19:00] And that's how we kind of morphed into a new company that we're focusing on. It gives me thought leadership and that will just set us on a path to become what we then became today. And eventually we managed to close investment one of the most proud moments of my whole life when we managed to do

Leo Judkins: So tell me about that moment. How did that happen? What was that, you know, what was that day like?

Pierre  Lindh: So when I was like one of my coping mechanisms during this very difficult time in March when we were, you know, Oh my God, either we're gonna be in debt for 10 years or we're gonna like to make it. I would listen to a lot of The dog days are over by Florence and the machine. I would like, think about the moment where we would sign that agreement and we would be like, we did it, you know, we come together. We, we, we did the impossible as an event company during COVID we managed to kind of reinvent ourselves and I would, I would use that as a coffee mechanism to take myself through those moments and, yeah, once, once we signed the agreement. 

[00:20:00] And I remember I put on the song I listened to it like obviously it's very emotional moment, but it was also a realization that oh shit like now the next phase starts like this is not over like now we have now we have capital from other people they expect us to do miracles with this capital and actually we just climbed another hill. As part of a big mountain, there's gonna be many other hills in front of us here. So it was a very short lived, kind of celebration. And then, okay, let's enter the next race now. Let's go on this longer, longer journey that we have ahead of us and that we're still in to this day.

Leo Judkins: What you're saying there about short lived kind of celebration, I think is very typical for most high achievers. Any, any sort of top athlete you talk to, it's always the same, right? It's always onto the next event onto the next big thing, not necessarily celebrating that podium for too long.

[00:21:00] Have you always been like that where you kind of, you don't hang onto it too long, but you Move on to the next thing or was this more a question of circumstance with the money behind you that needed to be, you know, repaid, I suppose.

Pierre  Lindh: Well, I think Leo, you know, Steve Jobs always used to say that it's the journey that is the reward. There is no, there is no finish line in life. And think about this, students who study to become, Medical doctor for example, you know, think about the race they are in in these couple of years when they are studying to get that doctor's degree and how difficult it is, how many sleepless nights they have, and they have that vision to finally get that diploma and that title. 

And what happens? Well, they get the diploma, they are celebrated, everyone's around them, everyone's saying congratulations to them, and then the next week they start working at McDonald's. right? Like then they are at the bottom of the next ladder, right? And they have to start climbing. I think life is made up of, of, of different races.

[00:22:00] And it's not about the finish line, it's never about the finish line. It's always about the journey. 

Pierre  Lindh: And, and that can be very difficult to absorb at times because as a founder also, you always have the vision in front of you. Like, oh, what about today? I sell the company and I can sail into the sunset and forever and ever live happily. It doesn't work like that. Like it's, yeah. If you are lucky to sell your company, it's like, yeah, then that race ends and another race continues.

We are always going to do something with our lives. And, and I think if we don't, if I would eventually sell the company, in the far future, then I mean, I will look back at these very stressful times as really valuable, just like now, I look back at the COVID days when. We really were fighting for our lives and now I can see a lot of value. I can see a lot of really, really beautiful moments during that time. And so the journey is the reward. Like it's not, it's not about the finish line.  

Leo Judkins: I want to ask you one more question about that specific situation with COVID. You made a very brave decision in a situation where you needed cash, right? You just reduced all of the expenditure and salaries and your decision is to produce content for free. That seems to be so counterintuitive, especially in that time, where it wasn't about free content, everything was behind paywalls back then. 

[00:24:00] That must have been a really difficult and therefore brave decision to make. So talk me a little bit through how you got to that decision and what made you stick to that decision?

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah, I think, I think everything fell into place very organically because as a conference, organizer and event organizer, we will always fall back on sponsorship. So. We produce things, and companies want visibility, so they pay us to have their logo attached to our really great initiative to build their brand perception and, and stuff like that. 

So for us, it just made perfect sense that we create content online, we release it for free, the more people that will see it, the more people want, the more companies will want to be associated with that, and they want to, They want to pay to to be visible through our content, and that was just to us a very intuitive kind of business plan for for our brand. 

[00:25:00] So I think it just came together really intuitively, just based on our experience and background. But I think what the difference was to what others were doing is like, So there's two ways to think about the problem.

Either you think from analogy, and it's basically what I know from the past that will, that I can translate into solving this problem. So if you think about Nokia producing mobile phones, you know, at the, at and around 2005, you know, say like the Nokia 3310, you know, unbreakable, invincible phone. They were thinking about how to make that phone better. Right, like how can I make it 10 percent better?

But when, when, when Apple decided to produce an iPhone, they didn't think about how to make the best Nokia phone 10 percent better. They didn't think about what a mobile phone was. They just thought about, what do we have at this very moment? What technology do we have available to us to create the best possible mobile phone? Disregarding anything that has been done in the past. And that is thinking from first principle, and the result of that was the iPhone. 

[00:26:00] That is super intuitive. You know, the App Store democratized developers to produce apps for you, make it even better. The latest technology at that time was the touchscreen. make the phone so that it's a fashion statement. Because, you know, people want to have pretty things. 

And it was super intuitive, but it was just breaking a lot of barriers at that time that no one had thought about before. And I think the mistake that our competitors made at the time of COVID was that they didn't really think, what people want in a digital environment. They do think about what we have done in the past. And how can we bring that online?

So we organize exhibitions. And how can we organize exhibitions online like that? No one wants to. There's no value from that. Like people don't want that. Like you already have linked in, right? People want content and thought leadership.

That's what people wanted. And we just happened to stumble across that idea. We went down a different route.

Leo Judkins: [00:27:00] Love it. I remember that we had a conversation about me having to go on stage and feeling really nervous about it.

And you gave me some fantastic advice on kind of how you, how you deal with going on stage, but I would love for you to share. Your very first time going on that stage and kind of what happened and, and, and talking, talking to us about your fears and, and yeah, your, your two big fears really, and how that, how that manifested.

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah, so like many of the listeners, I had a massive phobia of speaking in front of people, and I'm not talking about big audiences. I would say, like in a meeting of 10 people to have 10 people looking at me and me trying to present something to them. I felt like an absolute charlatan. I felt like an idiot, you know, and that those thoughts would just spiral in my head and I wouldn't be able to go through the simplest presentation.

So it used to be that when we organized events, it used to be that my business partner would go on stage, Martin, and he would talk [00:28:00] about whatever needed to be talked about. but I realized at some point that, like, I have to overcome this phobia. So I started easy and simple and spoke in front of some smaller events and stumble, stumble through it and whatever.

But really and truly the first time I spoke at an event and the biggest moment for me was, at the first inaugural Next.io it was a crazy thing that happened. This was the biggest event we ever organized. We organized, you know, six, 700 events at the time. And this was going to be the big one. We had put all the eggs in one basket. And in the morning of the event. 800 people were sitting in the audience waiting for the event to start. 

The only problem was that our host hadn't turned up. He didn't turn up. He was gone. He was a no show. We went to his hotel room. No one was there. I mean, he was nowhere to be found. So 15 minutes before the show was about to start, we all gathered in a circle and we're like, okay, how do we go about this? 

[00:29:00] And everyone looks at me and I look back at everyone. And they look at me and my production manager, he's like, Pierre, you have to do it, man. You have to take the role, man. I'm like, Oh my God, this is like all my fears, everything. But obviously we can't, we cannot just not do the event. Like I had, you know, obviously I have to do it.

So my production manager, he miced me up and under our production matter at the time was, so he was a world class production manager. He used to work for Live Nation in Dublin. He had product management. Prodigy, Red Hot Chili Peppers, all the biggest bands in the world. And he looked at me and he said, Pierre, everything's going to be okay. but I looked, I saw that he was nervous. I saw he didn't mean it. And when our world class production manager is nervous, then you know that this is not good. You know, he knew, he knew my fears. He knew how terrible I was at it and stuff. But the good thing was that I never had time to really let it sink in. that I was going to go on stage and hold speeches and present people on stage. 

[00:30:00] So they just marked me up. Okay, off you go. And, and, Alan, our production manager, he just told me, Pierre, just read from the script. Don't do anything else. Read from the script. And I was like, okay, so I went on stage, I read from the script, I came off stage and everything worked.

Like it wasn't, it wasn't so bad actually. And then the first speaker was backstage and he was so nervous. He was so nervous, and his name was Todd Haushalter, and he was the CPO of Evolution, and he was just about to go on stage and hold his presentation. And he was so nervous, and then he went on, and he did that presentation, and that became the most watched, the most viewed, presentation within the iGaming industry ever, right? 

And, so the lesson for me was that, oh, okay, not only I am nervous here, but everyone is nervous. So, if everyone is nervous, and if everyone thinks that they are really terrible on stage, then, I guess, that's okay. That's just part of speaking, I guess. So that realization was a diffuser for me, actually, realizing that it's okay to be nervous.

[00:31:00] Actually, it's fine. It's okay not to be perfect as well. Like, it's fine to just be yourself on stage. And actually, if you can be your imperfect self on stage, Then it's probably going to be something that people resonate with if you're a bit more authentic

Leo Judkins: Love it. Really awesome, Pierre. How do you go about it now? And how do you feel nowadays going on stage?

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah, so I really adopted that to myself that it's okay to be imperfect and if I can be my perfectly imperfect self on stage that is what I aspire to do in general. So I have come to terms that I'm not David Attenborough. I have come to terms that I'm not Esther Perel or Tony Robbins or anyone like that. It's just never gonna be like that. I've come to terms that I'm Pierre, and that's okay. so, when I go on stage these days, I don't really feel that nervous anymore. Only for that reason that I, that I am okay with not being perfect. because I think anxiety comes from wanting to overperform.

[00:32:00]  That's like, oh my God, if hundreds of people are looking at me, I need to say something groundbreaking. I need to say something that will shatter people's world belief and make them, you know, come out as a different person. It's like, Oh my God, like no wonder you get nervous. If you put that pressure on yourself, going, going on stage, in front of people, no, I, I, have some ideas and maybe some people like them, maybe some people don't, and I'm going to share them if people give me the opportunity. And, that's. Enough for me.

So I don't really, I don't really get nervous. Sometimes I suppose you can still kind of get a little bit nervous. I still don't want to make any big mistakes and stuff like that. But [00:33:00] by time these things becomes easier

Leo Judkins: Yeah, you've put in the reps. Makes a lot of sense. Talking about conferences in general, Pierre, you've, you run them like that. It's already stressful enough going to conferences yourself, right? And it kind of has a toll on your well being, right? You usually don't sleep as well. Back to back meetings.

You're seeing a lot of people for you. That's a whole, whole extra level, I suppose, because you run them right. And there's tons, everybody knows you. So what are some of the things that you do to maintain a bit of balance or if at all, during, during those, those type of conferences 

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah. So my team will laugh if they hear this question because they know that I'm probably the most nervous person when we have an event coming up. they would say that I am not very good at creating coping mechanisms leading up to an event because I get very nervous and I ask questions like, have you thought about this?

[00:34:00] Have you thought about that? And they really don't like when I go in between. To micromanage their work, they always manage to do really great stuff. And I come in like, on that side, I am a perfectionist. Like, I'm not a perfectionist when it comes to speaking on stage, but when it comes to our events, I am a bit of a perfectionist. And I think perfectionism is just another word for being a bit insecure. You know, it's not just me that I'm a perfectionist. It's just that they know what they're doing, so they don't really need me to, like, go in and question them all the time and stuff like that.

So, you know, now we have done, as I said, close to 1000 events. I still get really nervous before really big events that we do. I still get nightmares months leading up to events, thinking about everything that can go wrong. And I always have the same way. 

[00:35:00] My current nightmare is that I'm at the event. It's not that many people there and people come up and ask me like, Oh, Pierre, you promised that there were going to be more people here. Like, why, where are they? And then I'm like, Oh no, don't worry. Like it's, they're coming. And that's the thing about the events. It's like. We work for a year to organize this one day or two day event and before it happens, you don't know exactly what's going to happen. And, obviously there's a year of work, a year of investment, a year of time and, and a lot of partners that are committed to this only for everything to happen during these two days. And it's out of your control. Like once the doors open, the event is going to happen as it happens.

Everything that is at stake during this couple of days. It's really hard not to let that get to you. The same happened here in Cancun now with our elite retreat. The first time we did it. Every time we do an event for the first time, there's a lot of unknowns. We don't have any references. We don't know how people are going to move around and how they're going to use the space and stuff like that. So it's like, Ooh, really, really hoping that this is going to work, you know, because this is going to determine our future as well with this concept.

[00:36:00] And once it all comes together, I think it's a very special breed of people who go into the event because it's an enormous amount of stress for a long time leading up. To an event, but then once it all falls into place and it works when it is what it usually does, because you carry all this nervousness that comes into, you know, double checking things all the time.

And when you're double chicken, triple chick things, that's how you minimize mistakes at

the end of the day. So usually our events go really well. And then afterwards, the relief, and the celebration and the joy that comes from a successful event is, There's it can't be compared to anything. It can't be compared. It's a wonderful feeling.

Leo Judkins: Yeah, I love that. What are some of the top tips that you have for people visiting events, like to maintain their sanity throughout all of it?

Pierre  Lindh: me, me personally, I think it depends a little bit where you are in your career. Like if you're quite junior, it's a lot more about getting meetings, right? So when we started out, as a young event company, we would go to ice and no one knew who we were and no one wanted to give us time at all. 

[00:37:00] We were there to, we were there to pitch our services and the exhibitors, they wanted to sell their services. So no one wanted to talk to us basically, but we figured out pretty quickly, like, okay, if we go on the third day of the ice, for example, then people are a bit more relaxed and they are a bit more willing to Talk to you because they've already done their business a bit less people.

People are less stressed and so on. So we figured out that that was a good time to, to get our word in a little bit and stuff like that. And I think also, in general with business, it's, I think it's very important to try not to get ahead of yourself when it comes to closing deals.

And the way to sell is. often to make friends first. And like, if you can make friends, then by extension, you will do business. And the thing is, like, people want to do business with other people that they trust and that they like. So they will naturally prioritize the people that they are friends with and that they like.

[00:38:00] So, when it comes to relationship building, it's not always about just going in and just pitching your product for me, it's much more about establishing friendships and relationships. And that also comes down to who you are as a person as well. You know, if you are the type of person that likes to connect with people and if you're a good person, you probably will do pretty well. if you, if you are the type of person who doesn't really find it authentic to be out with the people and connect with the people that you work with. You're probably going to struggle a bit more when it comes to selling specifically, like you might find other areas of the business where you fit perfectly.

And like our, our head of marketing, always jokes around that like, you know, goddamn conferences, I can't wait to be home and all the things, but he fits, you know, he, he would probably not be the best salesperson, but.

[00:39:00] He is an incredible marketer. He is just a world class marketer and he found his space there. So he recognized what his strengths and weaknesses are basically. and the same thing goes in sales. We always say, we have a saying internally, Leo Judkins, which is, again, like what is the best type of salesperson? The best type of salesperson are those who are good people.

So, just be yourself. Unless you are a serial killer, don't be but then don't work for us. We want good people. And that's what we prioritize. So yeah, long story short, I think when it comes to the event, try to focus on building relationships, try to avoid going into these 15 minute meetings that are super impersonal. People forget what they say. They forget what they promise. It's pointless, often time you're going to have to follow up after the event and reiterate everything that you said. So what's the point?

Like focus on building relationships, focus on building genuine connections with people and things are going to fall into place after that.

Leo Judkins: [00:40:00] I had a similar discussion with Ashley, Ashley Lang, two weeks ago saying we're in a people to people business, right? P2P, not B2B. And I think it's very true, you know?

Pierre  Lindh: I love that. That's great. A great point.

Leo Judkins: I wanted to look kind of closing off. I wanted to talk a little bit about community, if that's okay, Pierre, you, really started talking about, you know, building the world's iGaming community with, with Next.io

And I really love that. I think similar to how you were saying, how things have changed after lockdown and after COVID, community is one of the real key missing aspects in business. The more that we are connected online, the more disconnected, we feel. So tell me a little bit more about, you know, why that's important to you building community and, and what is that going to look like for next.io?

Pierre  Lindh: Yeah, here's a very intuitive thing to say, but it's not that obvious if you go to an iGaming conference. People in the iGaming industry have other interests than the iGaming industry. Could you believe it?

Leo Judkins: No way.

Pierre  Lindh: [00:41:00]People, yeah, yeah, could you believe it, right? But if you go to an iGaming conference and you look at what the conference talks about, what are the different seminars, the roundtable discussions, it's all about iGaming. It's like people in the industry have other interests also. And, when we think about our content, especially in our next Valetta event, we think about, like, can we organize like a mental health track? You know, can we organize tracks that are focused on being your best self, bringing people together? Because maybe people within the industry don't only want to talk about iGaming. Maybe people are also seeking connection with each other. 

Especially now since the pandemic work and private life is blending together more and more. I mean, I'm sitting here in Cancun right now, and I have an off day. I'm very happy to be doing this to you, Leo. But to some extent, my work life and my private life are merging together more and more as I go forward, and I'm very happy to do that. 

[00:42:00] But I think the consequence of that is, we will be seeking more connections within the work environment and within our industry environment to a bigger and bigger extent. And I think that moving forward, creating genuine communities where people have a sense of belonging, because we have many identities as people, you know, my identity is an iGaming professional, but I also identify as a runner, for example, or I identify. as someone who likes to do many other different things and, within my gaming identity, I want to find belonging with other people, who resonate with that. So, the idea of creating the world's gaming community is not only about connecting people for them to do business with each other, but it is to give them a space to feel home. in the industry and to belong. 

[00:43:00] That's how we have built our next Valetta conference is not an impersonal, massive exhibition. It is a place for people to come together, meet, have a good time with each other, connect, become friends, sometimes friends for life. And, there is an element of that that eventually also leads to business. And that's where we connected with each other. That's where we connect private life and business life together. And I think the way to do that is to be mindful of the fact that if we are going to blend our work life and private life we need to do it in an organic way where we can feel happy and sustain our happiness levels in this context of work.

So that's the idea with creating the world's gaming community beyond just creating pure business. It is also to create friendships and a sense of belonging

Leo Judkins: great, great vision. I really love that. And I think it's very important. Okay. My last question, Pierre, before closing off, what are some of the, perhaps the people that have inspired you on your journey or people that you've spoken to leaders that you perhaps have interviewed on your podcast? 

[00:44:00] And what are some of the aspects of those leaders that inspire you most, just kind of leaving the listeners with some pieces of advice that they could maybe, maybe mirror?

Pierre  Lindh: Absolutely. I think that's a great question. And I can just say for myself when I grew up, I grew up without much parental figures. So for me, it was a lot about finding trades in other people and to adopt them into my own personality. When I was in my early twenties, I was like, I really want to try to be a good person, but I didn't. I hadn't really been taught how to go about that.

So I was trying to look for others. and I think actually one of the first people who inspired me to be a good person is a guy called Henry Colmgren, who used to work for Betsson in the early 2010s. And when he walked into the room, everyone was so happy. Everyone came and hugged him. Oh my god, Henrik is here.

[00:45:00] And he was what we call in Swedish, Gladys spirit, like a spreader of joy. And I looked at him and I'm like, oh my God. Like that's such a great quality to, to have as a personality. So I really looked up to him at that time. Now in the context of today, I would say, my best friend is La Zo. He is the CEO and, board of, director of the presenter group, like a major operator. He's had a really big influence on me. He was the first investor that came on to. The company as well. He's the type of guy who, when you see him, he looks like a big dangerous guy, like he has a big beard, he has bald and he's very, very straight, straight spoken, but then he is like the softest guy ever.

And he speaks about his feelings and emotions and talks about the difficult things that he goes through. And he is really an inspirational leader in the sense that he personifies this modern. masculinity. Let's say where it's okay to not be perfect all the time. It's okay to recognize that, you know, we shouldn't always hold things within ourselves.

[00:46:00] Like it's okay to talk about things. So he taught me a lot about that. I think Todd House is out there as well. It's a really inspirational person. That's what so many people in the industry look up to and with good reason. He's an exceptional leader. He is. He is the best person I've met. I don't know if you've ever met a person like that ever who gets you thinking about your own, who gets you to question your own beliefs.

So you will say something and he will be like, he will, he will ask a really smart question back that makes you think like, Oh, should I have? I maybe not thought this through from all directions and taught us a master at that. He's an absolute master at that. And then finally I'll say, I really look up to our staff in our company as well because it is rare, I think, in a company where the founder is off.

[00:47:00] It's not the person who is outputting the most energy. And, there's something called a founder mentality. and I think in our team, we have, like most of our team, a founder mentality. And, and I'm just, I'm just humbled by the fact that they bring that energy to, to, to our team. And I look up to what they do.

And I think about the great energy that they bring to the team on a day to day basis. Yeah, it makes me just so proud to know that I have a team like that. So I can, I can go on and on and on here, Leo on people I look up to. But, yeah, I think you are doing something really great also with, bringing a new culture into the industry of, opening up the conversation, as well. It's a really important initiative and you can see the leaders that you bring on. Talking about the difficult moments they have, which makes it easier for other leaders to do the same. It's like a watershed moment where for every person who does it, it becomes easier for the next person to do it. So I think you're also leading the charge there.

Leo Judkins: Thank you very much, Pierre. And thank you so much for your time and being so open and honest with sharing everything. It's been fantastic talking to you. Very inspirational. Thank you.

Pierre  Lindh: [00:48:00]It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.